Fabio Jr. Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why is this 3-5 kid argument brought up? The team series that was implemented over a decade ago has changed wrestling . Wrestling now puts an emphasis on team, not 3 or 4 good kids. Look at the top teams last year and the favorites this year. They all have more than 3 or 5 good kids, but rather a very good to great team. I dont see this changing for a very long time. Off season trips and team year long wrestling will continue and so will the growth of teams. I am a fan of the team state duals as I believe it is the best way to determine the best overall team in the state, but I do think though that the individual tournament has been forever changed. A team of 3 or 4 good kids may place in state, but it will be a very long time until a team with 3 or 4 good kids wins an individual state title. I am in it for all teams. Not just the champs. Look at Mishawaka. Were they the third best team last year? Being from that area I know how that rivalry goes between them and Penn. All year Penn Killed em, wasn't close ever. Yet according to our OFFICAL RESULTS Mishawaka is the third best TEAM in the state Penn not in the top 10. Good Programs are getting punished. If we don't try and tell people about the importance of the Duals we are hurting the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I am in it for all teams. Not just the champs. Look at Mishawaka. Were they the third best team last year? Being from that area I know how that rivalry goes between them and Penn. All year Penn Killed em, wasn't close ever. Yet according to our OFFICAL RESULTS Mishawaka is the third best TEAM in the state Penn not in the top 10. Good Programs are getting punished. If we don't try and tell people about the importance of the Duals we are hurting the sport. How are good teams being punished? I have been in numerous gymns and I have never seen a 3rd, 4th, or 5th place State Banner hanging in a gym. I do believe in the importance of duals, I am in FAVOR of duals and loved the IHSAA team event and love the new IHSWCA team event. I believed in duals to the point I thought it was a travesty that teams who lost in semifinals recieved a 3rd place medal. I thought that the teams should have wrestled a dual to see who was the third best team. But even during the duals I could not always tell you what duals team placed 3rd, 4th or 5th. I do know the teams that placed 1st and 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Until then, we will build the program around 5 state place-winners and 2-3 champs. The other 7-8 wrestlers on our team are still very important to our overall success winning the title with our preparation. Wow. If you're one of the "other 7-8 wrestlers on our team" this has to be SOOOOO motivational ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 If we don't try and tell people about the importance of the Duals we are hurting the sport. One way to also accomplish this would be to have more week day duals. 6 way duals are great for wrestlers but weeknight duals are great for the sport. The buildup of the weeknight dual can be and is great. I think more weeknight single duals would help to emphasize the importance of duals and would help build excitement by casual fans and wrestling fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 One way to also accomplish this would be to have more week day duals. 6 way duals are great for wrestlers but weeknight duals are great for the sport. The buildup of the weeknight dual can be and is great. I think more weeknight single duals would help to emphasize the importance of duals and would help build excitement by casual fans and wrestling fans. A++++++++ Bring back the prominance of the dual meet where you can bring fans and HS classmates in to watch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 One way to also accomplish this would be to have more week day duals. 6 way duals are great for wrestlers but weeknight duals are great for the sport. The buildup of the weeknight dual can be and is great. I think more weeknight single duals would help to emphasize the importance of duals and would help build excitement by casual fans and wrestling fans. I would love for this to happen, but it won't. Teams/Coaches seem more interested in getting the most possible matches. How is a schedule full of weekend-only dates helping promote the sport? You aren't getting the casual fan. The idea of weeknight duals might get more people interested in the sport. You may get a casual fan to show up to an hour and a half dual between two good teams, but there is no way they are showing up to a weekend tournament or super dual. In terms of promoting the sport, I think one of the biggest losses wasn't necessarily the team state championship, but the regional and semi-state weeknight duals that used to come along with it. I know a lot more people who would go to a Wednesday night team regional but not necessarily make the trip to Center Grove for team state. You could attract a more diverse crowd all over the state on those nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Does that mean that private schools goal will now be to recruit the best 5 or 6 wrestlers they can and not worry about all 14? Would save a ton on tuition scholarships and let the public schools keep some good wrestlers. Sounds like a win for everyone. Check out the Indiana Department of Education Open Enrollment. You can get whoever you want from whatever school private or public that you want, especially in Indy Metro. http://mb2.ecs.org/reports/Report.aspx?id=268 Cathedral has no advantage recruiting over any other public by district/geography. Parents have been chasing great programs for years. I bet you could even get some kids from Ft. Wayne to DeKalb if you build a winner up there. . And, I misspoke in my 1991 LN Champ team: Case Hooper was the 4th champ, not Jason Smith. And, for point of discussion above, Case Hooper was a Noblesville middle schooler before moving to Lawrence for high school for Papa Royce and the Schwarzkopf show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Not saying anyone recruits or doesn't recruit I just want to clarify the rule about open enrollment through the IHSAA. Open enrollment is based on academics. If a student stches schools and it is deemed to be because of athletics by the IHSAA then they can still be ruled ineligible. So guys don't be mislead by "open enrollment" and think anyone can go anywhere for athletics. They can go to any school they want for academics but that doesn't mean they will be eligible to compete under IHSAA guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brey Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Check out the Indiana Department of Education Open Enrollment. You can get whoever you want from whatever school private or public that you want, especially in Indy Metro. http://mb2.ecs.org/reports/Report.aspx?id=268 Cathedral has no advantage recruiting over any other public by district/geography. Parents have been chasing great programs for years. I bet you could even get some kids from Ft. Wayne to DeKalb if you build a winner up there. . And, I misspoke in my 1991 LN Champ team: Case Hooper was the 4thu champ, not Jason Smith. And, for point of discussion above, Case Hooper was a Noblesville middle schooler before moving to Lawrence for high school for Papa Royce and the Schwarzkopf show. Also got year wrong, it was 1992 LN won with four champs. Jason Smith was a State Champ in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 One way to also accomplish this would be to have more week day duals. 6 way duals are great for wrestlers but weeknight duals are great for the sport. The buildup of the weeknight dual can be and is great. I think more weeknight single duals would help to emphasize the importance of duals and would help build excitement by casual fans and wrestling fans. Our conference, the NLC, has 8 teams and we have a weeknight dual with each one during the course of the season. Those 7 matches (and one extra against a crosstown rival) are what gives the casual fan, classmates, teachers, etc the chance to see their team but not have to spend all day Saturday at a meet. We then wrestle 4 large tournaments so our kids still end up with about 28 matches over the course of the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Also got year wrong, it was 1992 LN won with four champs. Jason Smith was a State Champ in 1991. It was a long time ago. Thanks, Brey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Anyone claiming that the Individual Tourney Team Title is a "True Team Championship" needs to really take a look at how things are determined. If you are not willing to make this event a big deal at your school whats the point of even doing it. I know last year their were parades and news articles for teams up north. This attitude is what cost us the Dual State Series in the first place. Like stated above if you are happy watching teams win with 3-5 good kids than you are truly hurting the sport. Winning the Individual Tournament is a big accomplishment but it does not in any way signify the Best Team. </rant> At least Cathedral chooses to come and compete at this tourney unlike some other teams that have declined the last 2 years. I would guess the Dual State Series means even less to them, so before you bash the Irish you may want to focus on your buddies who choose not to even compete at this event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Vlink and Fabio go way back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Does that mean that private schools goal will focus on getting the best 5 or 6 wrestlers they can and not worry about all 14? Would save a ton on tuition scholarships and let the public schools keep some good wrestlers. Sounds like a win for everyone. Every crwd must have an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Every crwd must have an idiot. My response was to the argument that teams will now be put together to focus on the IHSAA team title through the individual tournament which has been proven in the past you can win with a handful of studs. If my comments about private schools hit too close to home and offended you I apologize for that. It must of been my idiotic public education I received. Oh and if it matters I have nothing against private schools and do believe that you should be able to send your kid where you want for whatever reason you have. (Which is not accepted by IHSAA at the moment) I just think the decision should be made before they are a freshman. I have no problem with the theory of "if you build it they will come". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Vlink and Fabio go way back.... BFF's actually. We usually play practical jokes on ole Maldonado...we are a wacky bunch of knuckle heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 the old format was much better at determining the best team in the state. this new format is terrible... and if you believe parents choose to send their kids to private schools for the wrestling and not the academics (aka private schools "recruit" for wrestling), then you arent very bright. the private schools are far better academically and less than like 0.1% of wrestlers can make their living wrestling. if our gov't didnt mandate where we took our child to school based on our address, it would be fair. buuut, northern indiana cares more about teachers unions than high school education... FORWARD!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 the private schools are far better academically Not to get to far off topic but the academics offered and quality of teachers between public and private school aren't too different from each other in several cases. It's often the overall clientele (students and parents) of each type of school that helps ensure better standardized test scores for private schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutterbutter Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I just don't fully understand why these people hate on The Cathedral Fighting Irish. I know this is a topis of debate, but can't we just discuss the match-ups and outcomes of the two tournaments... I mean Cathedral is a great team, and there are a lot of other great teams too. I give my hats off to Perry for four state titles in a row. All you region wrestlers and coaches need to quit bash'n Cathedral for having a strong successful team. Dang man, give it a rest. I'm sure the Irish respect the region teams as well as other teamsin the city, and we don't go talking trash about you people. Have some respect for the greatest sport ever made ya region know it alls.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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