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interesting article on recruiting!

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UNSTER, Ind. (AP) — Parents at a summer Little League All-Star tournament will have to be much more careful of what they say or who they talk to. The same goes for parents of grade-school-athletes playing travel baseball, softball, soccer or basketball in the summer.

 

For the first time in history, the Indiana High School Athletic Association’s bylaws on recruitment are no longer being applied to high school students alone.

 

With the passing of Bylaw 20-2 this past summer, potential student-athletes as young as 10 could lose their high school eligibility if recruitment is found.

 

IHSAA Commissioner Bobby Cox said the association in Indianapolis that governs high school sports in the state has heard reports of outside people influencing youngsters to attend a certain school to play sports. If found out, a fifth-grader could lose his or her high school athletic eligibility.

 

“We’ve never discussed what happens before the ninth grade,” Cox said.

 

Until now. The bylaw was authored by the IHSAA’s executive staff and approved April 30 by the Board of Directors by a 16-0 vote.

 

Merrillville Athletic Director Janis Qualizza was at the meeting and agrees 100 percent with the new bylaw. She said a day doesn’t go by where one of her middle school coaches comes into the Pirates’ athletic office and tells stories about students being recruited to leave by an unaffiliated lay coach.

 

“Ten years old, come on,” Qualizza said. “The recruiting has gone bonkers. We have middle school kids telling our coaches they should go to another school because of this or that. It’s crazy.

 

“I don’t know the answer to stopping all of this. But we have to try.”

 

This is the first school year where Bylaw 20-2 applies. Cox said no case has come up under 20-2 to date.

 

Crown Point attorney Michael Jasaitis has taken on the IHSAA in many eligibility cases through the years. He expects Bylaw 20-2 will keep him and other attorneys busy once eligibility cases come to the forefront.

 

“This new IHSAA bylaw appears to be a rule with terms so vague that reasonable persons would have to guess at its meaning and would apply the rule differently, which may render it invalid pursuant to the concepts of vagueness and overbreadth,” Jasaitis said. “Such a rule also could be overreaching, especially in light of the fact that a high school athletic association is attempting to punish 10-year-olds, which would seem to be outside of its jurisdictional authority.

 

“Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what a court would do if this rule is challenged in the future.”

 

Jasaitis pointed out one line in 20-2 that shows what he calls the vagueness of the rule. It reads, “A student with a history of athletic recruitment is a student who was, at any time after the student’s Tenth (10th) birthday, recruited by an individual or agency which has a reputation or history of recruiting students who have shown athletic talent, have shown potential athletic talent or whose physical appearance was consistent with those of an athlete ...”

 

“What does that mean?” Jasaitis said. “We’re going to look at the physical appearance of a 10-year-old?”

 

Marvin Rea, Bowman Academy athletic director and boys basketball coach, said also he is confused about how this will develop.

 

His 2010 Class A state championship team had six players who played for him in AAU ball when they were 9. He was not associated with Bowman at that time. He was an engineer.

 

“If this rule was written 10 years ago, I would’ve been in violation, or maybe not,” Rea said. “What is their definition of recruiting? Coaches have camps for grade-school and middle-school kids everywhere. Can you have clinics? Can you have camps? Can baseball or softball coaches give lessons or coach travel teams where they can influence kids to attend their schools?”

 

Many local AAU programs use high school gyms for practice. Is that now a violation if the student is 10? Or 11 or 12?

 

Cox knows his association’s move is historic. But he and his membership also believe that recruitment at the lowest levels has brought this about. “We’ve heard scenarios where sixth-graders are being identified as potential athletes by outside people,” Cox said. “We’re trying to combat that.”

 

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while I like what the IHSAA is trying to do...I agree that they have no say over what choices a kid makes before he enters high school.  So how will this stand up.  I hope this helps with the problem but I fear the first time this is challanged in court it will fall.

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I am so tired of this attitude in our society.  I can't tell you how many times I hear people say...." well we have to do something!"

 

I don't care if it's immigration, gun control, concussion testing, now recruiting of 10 year olds. 

 

Let's not "do something" if it's the wrong thing to do.  I think we need to investigate these issues more fully before we "pull the trigger."  No pun intended.

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I am so tired of this attitude in our society.  I can't tell you how many times I hear people say...." well we have to do something!"

 

I don't care if it's immigration, gun control, concussion testing, now recruiting of 10 year olds. 

 

Let's not "do something" if it's the wrong thing to do.  I think we need to investigate these issues more fully before we "pull the trigger."  No pun intended.

 

Well said, formerwrestler.  This is what we need more of-- unelected bureaucrats making vague rules and enforcing them, or not enforcing them, as they see fit. 

 

Someone mentioned that they are "serving notice".  To whom?  Did anyone see "cheater" defined? 

 

Do you beleive that the rules are vague unintentionally?  No!  Hopefully, the IHSAA is giving lip-service to this non-issue and have no intention of enforcing it.  Otherwise, it will be a disaster.

 

 

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Well said, formerwrestler.  This is what we need more of-- unelected bureaucrats making vague rules and enforcing them, or not enforcing them, as they see fit. 

 

Someone mentioned that they are "serving notice".  To whom?  Did anyone see "cheater" defined? 

 

Do you beleive that the rules are vague unintentionally?  No!  Hopefully, the IHSAA is giving lip-service to this non-issue and have no intention of enforcing it.  Otherwise, it will be a disaster.

 

 

You can't be comparing gun control to high school athletics.  This is also one of the problems with our society. 

We are either all or nothing.  Every problem is exactly the same.  We don't seam to have the ability to discern

any more.

Groups like the NCAA and the ISHAA are there to protect the games we love and to keep the playing field

as level as possible.  Will this rule stop recruiting, probably not.  But will it make people think twice about

transferring schools for athletic reasons.  Yes it will. 

I would hate to be the first one that the ISHAA make an example of.  If you are not taking this rule seriously.

You will be risking a lot!

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It won't matter! Teams like Merrillville will still use nomad wrestling to recruit young talent. Look at how many of their wrestlers transfered from another school. Hell they took 3 from RF, and 2 from Hobart, 2 from East Chicago. They will still steal from other schools regardless of the rules. No one ever punishes them for their illegal recruitment. Cheaters will always be present.

 

yes the recruitment packages at merrilville are pretty good....I was offerd a chance at no homework ever a solid 4.0 through it...it was pretty cool. And at Mishawaka we made sure the recruits got cars and and multiple girlfriends....The EMD package wasnt as solid they did have a magnificaent tradition though...I had to stay with Mishawaka I mean i was born there only made sense....

 

 

<THIS POST WAS SATIRICAL>

 

For real though pretty ballsy to call out a successful program on your first post. And your only arguement is THEY HAVE A GOOD YOUTH PROGRAM! ITS RECRUITING!

 

"IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME"

 

I do not understand how this helps anything...I guess all the wrestling clubs need to close up shop or limit enrollment to only kids in your school district dont want to get caught "helping" kids.  So better hope you have a youth program or you are unable to workout anywhere else thus improve.

 

Example: A wrestler in the Elkhart Central District joins the Penn Youth Program. When this young lad turns 12 his parents move to the penn district. Did Coach harper recruit this kid? To a sane  person with common sense no not at all. All it takes is one idiot to complain and boom you make that kid lose eligibility.

 

 

Thats how I interperet it as.

 

This rule is dumb. Nice job Cox.

 

 

 

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[font=Verdana]Example: A wrestler in the Elkhart Central District joins the Penn Youth Program. When this young lad turns 12 his parents move to the penn district. Did Coach harper recruit this kid? To a sane  person with common sense no not at all. All it takes is one idiot to complain and boom you make that kid lose eligibility.

 

Not sure it is as big of a problem when the whole family moves to the school district.

It is when the whole family does not move, when I have the problem.

It may be as simple as that.  Your family must be permanent residents of the

school district to compete in any sports.

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We are not talking about kids who are in high schools we are talking about youth programs. I know the program that Y2 runs has kids from multiple schools. Say he trains a 7 year old all the way to 6th grade and that kid moves in to the district in 6th grade, since he had contact with them and it could be argued that he recruited him. It is stupid.

 

If your claims are true, then yeah that is blatently against the rules. Why did you allow it as a parent if you knew it was wrong? Morally that's on you.

 

It is ironic you are in favor this yet you were actively involved in recruitmernt. If it helps you it's ok? but if not its terrible?

 

 

 

Y2...obviously some promises were not kept... ;D

 

JCHAS: I understand that logic. But the issue is in the vagueness off the rule.

 

A student with a history of athletic recruitment is a student who was, at any time after the

student’s Tenth (10th) birthday, recruited by an individual or agency which has a reputation

or history of recruiting students who have shown athletic talent, have shown potential

athletic talent or whose physical appearance was consistent with those of an athlete, to

relocate to a location, facility or educational institution for the purpose, at least in part, of

participating in athletics.

 

Thats the part that is broken. Anything  during or after 9th grade its fair game for them to enforce...this is stupid

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If his parents move to Penn District there is nothing that the IHSAA can do.  Moving is the key.  Enrolling in a school out of the district you live should send a red flag that one school offers something you want that the other school does not.  IE: chance to be starting QB, or varsity HWT.  

 

The IHSAA will also have to fight the DOE because it is believed in Indiana that kids can enroll in any school that gives them the best chance to achieve academically.  But, if a kid truly moves to a school for academic reasons then they shouldn't worry about athletic eligibility anyway.  That excuse has become the loop hole for kids to transfer and not lose eligibility.  

 

 

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Coaches might have to be careful of letting kids into their youth programs that live out of district. 

 

Lay coaches who run "Academies" for profit might find themselves ineligible to be high school coaches.  Parents shop their kids around if they are good.  It happens. 

 

Athletic directors and Principals should strive to hire EDUCATORS to coach their teams.  Too many times problems arise from lay coaches who have the EGOS that  they are wrestling GURUs and have all the answers.  Its an easy sell to a parent of a talented kid who knows little about the true meaning of the sport and is all worried about the "best chance" for little Johnny. 

 

And don't slam on Perry and their coaches.  They had 14 guys in the finals at sectional, won easy, and then on Sunday their coaches were at an ISWA meet coaching again all day.  That is dedication.  If you lived on the South Side of Indy and had a kid with the chance of being a multiple time state champ why wouldn't you want to go to that school, especially if you knew their line up and knew youd have a chance to make it.  What is a coach suppose to do if someone enrolls in his school and can help his team????  Tell him sorry but can't help you. 

 

AM I WRONG???

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I'm pretty sure the kids are going to SCHOOL for an education, not a wrestling academy, that should maybe be taken into account at some point. LOL

 

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I'm not calling out the program, I'm calling out their unethical coaches. You want to impress me, build a high school team with kids from your school. don't go to a kid and say, "hey if you wanna wrestle for us, we can get you a place to rent so you can wrestle here". This aint college! it's high school. ATHLETIC TRANSFERS ARE ILLEGAL!!!! If this continues, they will need to have a classed sectional. 1a vs 1a, 2a vs 2a, etc. this is what makes it hard for small schools to compete when you have a 5 a school team recruiting 1a 2a and 3a schools to fill their roster. Gimme a break. I wont say names but I know for a fact that merrillville has a truant officer, and a lawyer ready for anything that they mess up. I have seen it with my own eyes, and sat in the room when they asked my son to come wrestle for them. They said they would take care of everything.  ;) My son wrestled for them his junior and senior year and did great. We are very happy with the coaching, but we still cheated to make merrillville better. So yes I'm calling my own school out because we cheat!!! Period!

 

If this is true, you should indentify yourself on this board and notify the ihsaa.  otherwise, you are simply disparaging merrillville's program.

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1.  I hope the people who enforce this rule can distinguish between an athlete switching schools because he wants to switch schools go to a better program and a kid switching schools because he was coerced/recruited by a coach on the staff of a better program.     I'd bet in most cases, its the athletete wanting to switch and less recriting by the coach.  

 

2.  And if it is recruiting,  its extremely difficult to prove and enforce.  And the rule is so vaguely and poorly written, if somebody does enforce it the IHSAA better bump up there legal budget, bucause a lawyer will eat this up.

 

3.  If it does happen in wrestling,  which is so low on the IHSAA radar,  they probably wont spend the energy going after a wrestler.

 

4.  This is contradictory to the recent message and path of the Indiana dept of Education.  I'm talking about recent legislation (wont go into detail) that promotes the students choice to transfer schools based on Educational standards and open enrollment.   Lets be honest, the voucher system is a huge incentive for a kid to transfer schools to the private schools who most likely have better athletic programs.  And how are we going to be able to judge a kid if he transfers for academic or athletic purposes.

 

5.   The IHSAA is sick if they go after 10 year olds for transferring schools.

 

 

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The IHSAA rules are so messed up...So the State of Indiana adopts the "School Choice" program that says that basically a student can choose what school they go to...which then in turn "blurs" the lines, so once this is adopted, the IHSAA then puts into play new "recruiting rules" that say that a kid over the age of 10 who is "contacted" about a certain program is now considered being "recruited"??? 

 

So, how is "recruiting" determined?  If a 10 year old, new to the area moves in and goes to one school, but then after being in that school for a year he is unhappy, he then goes to a camp over the summer, one that is run by another school, he meets the coach and really likes him and he tells the coach he wishes he went there and the coach says something as simple as "we'd love to have you here", the kid makes some new friends and decides he wants to go to the other school and transfers.  Could the IHSAA then say because he was over 10 and had contact with the other school's coach that it could be considred recruting? 

 

I am very confused how this new rule is going to be enforced, especially with the School Choice Program? 

 

 

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How does this affect PM, Merrillville, CP, etc. :)

It will not affect Perry Meridian at all because we don't recruit. We build it the old fashioned way...with a great elementary and middle school program and awesome, dedicated coaches at every level.

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Did you just type those words with a straight face...Com, on man...Go to the beach, but watch the grove in the road...The brand you are smoking has caused some confussion, but james it will be ok, just don't count  us out, we will keep it a secret...

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"IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME"

 

 

It becomes harder to "build it" if your building material is constantly being stolen.  

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It becomes harder to "build it" if your building material is constantly being stolen.  

#TRUTH You want to impress me, coach a team of your own wrestlers and place 14 in regionals. PM has a gripe, they have a great elementary team, a great JH team, and over 100 kids on the team. Merrillville doesnt. they steal all of their athletes. ALLLLLLL OFFFFF THEMMM.

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It becomes harder to "build it" if your building material is constantly being stolen.  

 

 

Look at this in a hypothetical perspective.  Say a wrestling dad has a son in the age range of 9-12,  is showing a lot of potential and will go to high school at one of the schools in PM sectional.   The dad attends the sectional this weekend,  and sees PM almost run the table and squash the school his son is scheduled to go to.    The dad thinks, in 5 years my kid will be the one losing to PM and has a very limited chance of making state.   He probably thinks how can I get my kid in the PM program makes it happen.   PM doesn't need to recruit.   What recruits for PM is there results and the flexibility of open enrollment.

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