wildcatcountry97 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Charger Dad pointed out what I feel many think. The newer FILA rules are really bad for wrestling. They have changed the Greco-Roman rules to be so complicated that all over the country local tournaments that used to have Greco simply do not anymore because local kids and many coaches cannot follow all of these unnecessarily complicated rules and it becomes more trouble than its worth. As this dies down at local levels, you're going to see this faction of wrestling, sadly, die . In addition, the ball grab, who gets choice based on the color of their singlet, and I'll even add last point scored in a tie - is terrible. For instance you can get destroyed 6-0 in the first period. 2nd period you get taken down. Then you simply PUSH a guy out of the circle to tie and win 2nd period. Third period 0-0 ball draw and win the draw. (this did happen this year) How does this reward the better wrestler? The loser scored 6 points, and the winner shoved a guy won a draw out of a basket!! Too much luck and silly rules. Quite frankly - I know I'm in the minority on this one - but I don't like separate periods where points don't carry over. Far too much stalling and waiting because there is no need to risk any offense if you have a 1 point lead. Its like running out the clock at the end of a basketball game, except that your are rewarded for doing it every quarter! (Yah I mentioned basketball get over it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 For the most part, I believe that folkstyle wrestling is a more entertaining style when compared to freestyle. I read an interesting post on themat.com in which someone stated that folkstyle wrestling is about who can "control" their opponent , while freestyle is more focused on who can "direct movement." I thought that this was an accurate comparison of the essential differences between the two styles. To me, control throughout a match is a much better indicator of a superior wrestler than directing movement. As far as entertainment value, I believe that the way backpoints are awarded in folkstyle is more clear-cut and easier to understand for spectators unfamiliar with the sport (and even for those who are), as only the wrestler who is in control can score them. Additionally, I believe that the "best of three periods" scoring format in freestyle can often encourage stalling. For example, during Burroughs' gold medal match, it was painfully obvious that he was biding his time during the first 1:40 of each period and did not look to score until the very end of each period, when he knew the Iranian had no shot at mounting a comeback. While this was an excellent strategy and obviously worked out for him (2 beautiful takedowns to win each period), had it been a folkstyle match, I believe he would've been looking to score from the outset in order to build his lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I actually thought a lot of the matches were boring.. a lot of finger holding.. a whole lot of hand and finger holding... seemed like action or even attempted action was rare.. Seemed as if many wrestlers were ok with ending period 0-0 and going to ball grab (which I hate)... I do not have an answer, just stating an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I'll just comment on what I keep reading about... How "boring" Freestyle is. I will agree that most of the wrestling was hard to watch. However, alot of High level Folkstyle matches can be equally boring. Look at NCAA's, not exactly a scoring fest for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I actually thought a lot of the matches were boring.. a lot of finger holding.. a whole lot of hand and finger holding... seemed like action or even attempted action was rare.. Seemed as if many wrestlers were ok with ending period 0-0 and going to ball grab (which I hate)... I do not have an answer, just stating an opinion. You do realize this is the highest level of wrestling right? Very little separates the best guy in the bracket and the worst guy in the bracket. One mistake can lead to you losing your match and not being able to even wrestle back for bronze. The attacks that are going to take place are going to be perfect or else they will not take the risk. Look at how close all the 100m finalists were. One miscalculation by one of them and they go from 2nd to 9th really quickly. The same goes for wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Make it first one to ten... No clock.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The worst part about the rules is that they are developed completely based on what the International Olympic Committee requests of FILA, the international wrestling body. One of FILA's board members and rules developers is an American who often answers questions and posts thoughts on the USA wrestling boards. The parameters they have to work within are very sticky: the IOC wants short matches, officials not "deciding" matches (passivity calls), and a system that forces people to wrestle all the way through the match. They also demand that the Freestyle and Greco rules be different enough to justify having both as Olympics sports. The point being this: it's not as simple as, 'this or that rule would be the best determinant of the best wrestler'. It all has to fit the restrictions FILA has been handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Make it first one to ten... No clock.. Go back to the old way, first wrestler to pin the other wins. Screw this point stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Go back to the old way, first wrestler to pin the other wins. Screw this point stuff. Don't forget the Olive Oil and the powder!! Wrestling Origin: The first recorded Olympic wrestling match occurred in the Olympics in 708 BC. Wrestling was highly valued as a form of military exercise without weapons. There were two distinct versions of the game, differing according to the holds and the methods of deciding the victor. Variations: Orthia pale (Upright and Proper Wrestling) The object of this type of wrestling was simply to throw the opponent to the ground. Three falls constituted a loss for that opponent, and the winner was called the "triakter". The match continued without stops until one man emerged victorious. Kato pale (Ground Wrestling) Victory in this competition depended on one competitor acknowledging defeat. Defeat was indicated by raising one's right hand with the index finger pointed. Rules of the Game: Blows were not allowed. Tripping was permitted. No biting or gouging was allowed. There was no weight distinction. The wrestlers were anointed with olive oil then dusted with powder to make them easier to grasp. The competition took place in the "keroma", or beeswax, a muddy and sticky arena. Characteristics of a Good Wrestler: Since there was no weight provision in the Olympics, it is obvious that the sport required a strong and stout build. A special combination of agility, skill and craft were also necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I like the first one to ten rule with no clock! I knew their was a reason I liked you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2cash Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 the problem is the new rules are supposed to promote more activity but it does the opposite. the previous scoring method definitely encouraged more offense. that is obvious by score totals from then and now. I think the US Should develop a modified way of scoring for the youth club level. We need some way to keep kids involved in learning techniques Of freestyle and greco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy74 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have a question. Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but in the old rules if the match ended in a tie score (or maybe if the match ended with a 0-0 score) I thought it went to "the clinch" which was each man had an over under with his hands locked around his opponent. If one wrestler unlocked his hands he lost otherwise it was whichever wrestler scored. In that case, the clinch was "fair" because noone had a clear advantage. The new rules with the ball grab one man has a clear advantage over the other all based on chance which seems unfair to me. Why don't they just have it if a period ends 0-0 that they get into an over under and settle it that way.... just curious.... please correct me if I am mistaken on the old rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have a question. Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but in the old rules if the match ended in a tie score (or maybe if the match ended with a 0-0 score) I thought it went to "the clinch" which was each man had an over under with his hands locked around his opponent. If one wrestler unlocked his hands he lost otherwise it was whichever wrestler scored. In that case, the clinch was "fair" because noone had a clear advantage. The new rules with the ball grab one man has a clear advantage over the other all based on chance which seems unfair to me. Why don't they just have it if a period ends 0-0 that they get into an over under and settle it that way.... just curious.... please correct me if I am mistaken on the old rules. The ball grab is to encourage action...You shouldn't want your match decided by a ball grab (hehehe) The clinch offered no enticement to further action in regulation. Oh well we'll just go to the clinch.. Before that was the 3 point rule where somebody had to score 3 points or the ref's decided who won the match.I think that's how Angle won the gold, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 If they want to encourage action why don't they have stalling? About the most exciting part of Greco at the Olympics this year was when the wrestler from I think Russia (not sure) threw his unexpecting coach for a 5 after he won the Gold... I seen all of the warnings by the ref's for interlocking the fingers but nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 If they want to encourage action why don't they have stalling? About the most exciting part of Greco at the Olympics this year was when the wrestler from I think Russia (not sure) threw his unexpecting coach for a 5 after he won the Gold... I seen all of the warnings by the ref's for interlocking the fingers but nothing more. Yeah, this is what I was trying to explain above about the restrictions given by the International Olympic Committee. They don't want to see matches "decided" by the judgment of officials, followed by all the international conflict and finger-pointing. Soooo, we have the push-out rule and best-of-3 and the ball grab and video replay. As little as possible is left to an official's "influence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yeah, this is what I was trying to explain above about the restrictions given by the International Olympic Committee. They don't want to see matches "decided" by the judgment of officials, followed by all the international conflict and finger-pointing. Soooo, we have the push-out rule and best-of-3 and the ball grab and video replay. As little as possible is left to an official's "influence". Greco may as well be sumo wrestling....Not a lot of difference....In my opinion the push out rule should be the whole body of the wrestler not just one foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Very little separates the best guy in the bracket and the worst guy in the bracket. One mistake can lead to you losing your match and not being able to even wrestle back for bronze. This is very true. It would be very difficult to create a set of rules that would open up scoring once the best of the best square off against each other. The only thing I can think of is doing something akin to what soccer did when they created the indoor league and we know how successful that was in making soccer America's sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 I agree totally. I tell friends how boring soccer is on tv, and then when we watch some wrestling and it's just as boring. I know you were joking, but first one to 10 points would be very exciting: keep the push out rule, and the referee is pretty much out of the match, the best wrestler will win, and conditioning is rewarded. USA wrestling should wrestle some sort of modified rules, that's a very good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love wrestling but watching 2 guys hold hands and try shove each other out of a circle and not score for 1:45 is boring, and will hurt the sport...Not that Fila cares much about the good ole USofA's numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Also, I don't know about 708 BC, but the first recorded wrestling match was between God and Jacob. You can read about it in the first book of the Hebrew bible. From what I'm told God hit a pretty slick gut wrench and disloated Jacob's hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Also, I don't know about 708 BC, but the first recorded wrestling match was between God and Jacob. You can read about it in the first book of the Hebrew bible. From what I'm told God hit a pretty slick gut wrench and disloated Jacob's hip. Technically according to most versions religious scholars believe it was referring to an unnamed angel wrestled Jacob. I'm going with that account since I think God would have launched him for 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Some say God, some say an angel, and some say even his brother Esau. The original Hebrew, before the translation to KJV, makes this pretty tricky. With that long hair and beard I've always seen God as more of a long distance runner than 5-point-thrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 New rules have definiately killed it :-\ used to love freestyle but onbce they changed to winning periods and push outs it was as if the crappy wrestler who was only good at greco roman could beat some of the best wrestlers when in fact that wrestler cant even take a good shot on somebody Make folkstyle the olympic style. haha but no country would vote for that because we would probably win every weight ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts