hoosierdad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I just wanted to get everyone's opinion of the weight honor system in ISWA tournaments. Anyone have any bad experiences anything you'd like to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU89 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My schoolboy wrestled a kid in the 90 lb division one weekend in a tournament with the honor system. The next weekend, that same kid weighed in at 111 for another tournament. He was obviously bigger than all of the other kids in his weight class that first weekend, but nobody complained because he wasn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Although the local tournaments are sanctioned through the ISWA, each host club decides how they structure and control their weigh-in procedure. Just to clarify, at all ISWA state events, all wrestlers are required to weigh-in on site...no exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The easy way to beat this. Morning skin check , look up kids weight , jump on scale ,, over weight DQ. Have a nice day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSchaefer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Weigh them in, every dual, every event, every time....simple solution...no emails, no fax in...step on the scale in front of all your competition...end of story What makes no sense is the way it is done now...you do a sattellite weigh in on a Thursday...most of us do...then what, challenge a weight on Sunday, three days later....I have never seen this happen, but I heard today at a local event that happened someplace...how do you really challenge a weigh in from 3 days before...the challenge was pointless because even 3 days later the kids weight was perfect...a big waste of time...but really...weigh em in...that makes it easy for everyone...if you want to give an allowance fine, but step on a scale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1prouddad Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not to change the subject to much on this matter as I have seen the same at some of these small events. We attedned one this weekend with the "honor" and noticed the same thing. The other thing that I seen and really dissapointed about is the fact that the referees at this said event was nothing more than area high school wrestlers. I have no problem with that as long as they know the rules and do it fairly. My son, which is a very good wrestler, lost a match due to terrible(and I mean terrible) refereeing. The calls were so bad that even the other coach was like man that was not a good call at all. His boy beat out my boy and advanced to championship round due to this. I have no problem with my boy losing, but as they say "Come on Man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagner Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It doesn't take but a second when you are doing skin checks to have them step on a scale and verify their weight. We always make sure our kid is at weight or below weight. I personally think there should be weigh-in's at every tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosoccermomhere Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 When my boys started wrestling their was no such thing as faxed weigh ins. I don't like them and don't see the need for them. We wrestled at a tournament last year and they checked the weight of some of the kids and one of the wrestlers in my sons bracket A as 12 pounds over the weight class that he was wrestling. I see this all the time now that faxed weights are the norm. Everyone steps on the same scale on the same day. This is the only way to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julio Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Most of the time the local events do this to save time with pairing up wrestlers the day of the tournament. We have become a society of get there and get it done early so we can go home, that nobody wants to take time and do it correctly. I remember the days of everybody weighing in the day of the tournament, but now it seems that everybody wants to do it a head of time so they don't have to wake up early or spend time waiting around for brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyler Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 When parents have their child wrestle a lighter weight than they actually weigh, they are only hurting their child. Secondly, they are not modeling good behavior for their son or daughter. I think the vast majority of parents do not abuse the faxed or satelite weigh in. It does make the tournament run more smoothly when they are done the night before, at these bigger events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYSKY Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I like the honor system it speeds up the brackets and getting in. However we as parents & coaches need to take care of what we have been giving and not screw it up..... An ideal I had was if you feel a kid is over weight go to a offical protest it if they are with in a certin amount of the weight they entered you give their entry fee back to them right there if they are over that amount they are DQ. I feel there needs to be a allowance because the kids eat or drink during the tournament and maybe over at that point but wont be no 12 over.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvq71 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I like it when they do satelite or fax weigh-ins to speed up the tournament and to save time, and the tournament still doesn't start until 10:00 or later.....then you wrestle a kid over the actual weight class that he certified at. This makes for a GREAT day of wrestling!! I understand that the ISWA doesn't want to have to dictate how a club runs there tournament, but it's getting out of control. There should be mandatory weigh-ins for every tournament. They can speed it up a bit by letting kids weigh-in the night before for a particular tournament if they want to. If you look at how things have changed over the years with Indiana youth wrestling, 10 years from now, there won't even be weigh-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodyslamU Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 When my son started wrestling it made me so mad that these kids that are clearly bigger than him were wrestling in the wrong weight class. After a while i started to notice how much better my son got wrestling larger kids, so i just started wrestling him up. If he weighed 100 pounds i'd wrestle him at 105. I looked at these small tournaments as preperation for the State and National tourneys. just like weight lifting, if you wanna get bigger lift heavier, if you dont stay light. Kids that wrestle down are only hurting themselves, and for what a $2 medal. Now it makes me laugh when I see it cause the smaller kid got better and the bigger kid just took a step backwards. If i could do one thing I would make a challenge system. Wrestler "A" is a 75 pound novice! Wrestler "B" is in the 75 pound weight class but weighs 82 pounds. Wrestler "A" wants to challenge the weight of wrestler "B". It cost wrestler "A" $20 dollars to challenge. If wrestler "B" comes in over weight he is "DQed" and the $20 is refunded to wrestler "A". However if wrestler "B" is say within 2-3 pounds than the tourney host keeps the $20 and the kids wrestle. This would stop a challenge on every match but also make the honor system more honest! It could only be done on the first match of the day since most kids eat about $50 worth of pizza and candy as the day progresses. And byes would'nt count as the first match, it would have to be an actual match. I know that if i just drove 4 hours to a meet i would want my son to wrestle all day, not take a chance of being 3-4 pounds over and lose a challenge only to turn around and drive 4 hours back home with out ever steping on the mat. Lucky for me (or unlucky ) these days are over untill I have grand kids. And that better be 10 years from now or i'll really be angry. My son is just a freshman and 15 years old. I see now that a few matches to a couple cheaters was the least of my worries. Try and take it with a grain of salt, bigger and better things are ahead. And remember................ "DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF AND THERE IS NO BIG STUFF", you can quote me on that!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonDad Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I am just wondering how many of you have actually run a tournament? If you have onsite weigh ins then people get mad because wrestling never starts on time. If you have "honor" system weights then everyone thinks they are being cheated. There has to be a medium area that everyone could agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julio Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I can's speak for anybody but myself, but I have ran numerous tournaments in the region for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonDad Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I can's speak for anybody but myself, but I have ran numerous tournaments in the region for years. I could not agree more about the "get here and get done" attitude of all society now. Every year we keep notes about what we did the year before and how can we improve upon that. I think trackwrestling is the future of our sport though and with the NCAA announcing they are using them this year I am hoping using them for our tourney is the correct call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwoodjc89 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I had an issue with this honor system last year. The week before ISWA folkstyle state my son was wrestling Pee Wee 40 but weighed 36. He was paired up with a kid that looked pretty big for a 40. We asked how much he weighed, his coach said he weighed 47 on Thursday. It turned into a bit of an argument, regrettably. Eventually the coach told me "We'll see what he weighs next week!". The next week I looked for the kid's name on the brackets and didn't find it. I also looked on trackwrestling. I was curious what weight he was going to be wrestling. The kid must not have entered. I know this was my son that was involved here but I would have done it for any of my wrestlers with that obvious of a difference. He practiced with plenty of bigger kids last year and still does, so it wasn't danger of being hurt that I was worried about. But in a tournament it should be close to a fair match. This was not. I am not opposed to the honor system if people are somewhat honest. I mean at least keep it within a couple of pounds. It does help tournaments get started on time. Here is what I propose to fix it... Keep the satellite, fax-in, email-in weigh-ins. This way brackets can be done ahead of time. Still have a weigh-in to confirm weights. Drop the tenths off of actual weight like they did at ISWA Elementary State Duals. For example 105.9 is a good weight for 105. If someone comes in overweight they would need to pay for a second entry or re-entry into the tournament to wrestle at the correct weight. That will keep it honest and would help pay for the trouble of re-doing a bracket. What do you guys think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I just find it sad that coaches and parents will cheat the system in order to help their kid win a local tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLane Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Indy Nationals allows fax weigh-ins for out-of-state wrestlers only......and some of those kids look huge. This is the only National Tournament that I know of that allows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwoodjc89 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I just find it sad that coaches and parents will cheat the system in order to help their kid win a local tournament. I don't know that I have ever agreed with you more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonDad Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I just find it sad that coaches and parents will cheat the system in order to help their kid win a local tournament. We had this discussion last night at our board meeting. Our old coach told me one time "You can be the best middle school wrestler in the state but once you hit high school, nobody cares what you did in middle school". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLane Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I just find it sad that coaches and parents will cheat the system in order to help their kid win a local tournament. agree 100%.....its a local tournament and the real trurth comes out when they step on the mat at state or a National tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Indy Nationals allows fax weigh-ins for out-of-state wrestlers only......and some of those kids look huge. This is the only National Tournament that I know of that allows this. That is pretty shocking! I have to travel there to make weigh-ins the night before and pay for a hotel just like an "out-of-stater" would have to, I truly do not understand this ruling. I have already signed my boys up for this tournament this year, so we will be attending, but if the kid he wrestles is from out of state and looks quite big, there better be a route to challenge the weight. If not, this will be the only year my boys will go there. Way to expensive to have such probable negativity and the possibility of my son being hurt. I truly don't worry about regular tournaments and have only rarely seen cases where I thought they may be over. However, a "National" event should NOT have such a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That is pretty shocking! I have to travel there to make weigh-ins the night before and pay for a hotel just like an "out-of-stater" would have to, I truly do not understand this ruling. I have already signed my boys up for this tournament this year, so we will be attending, but if the kid he wrestles is from out of state and looks quite big, there better be a route to challenge the weight. If not, this will be the only year my boys will go there. Way to expensive to have such probable negativity and the possibility of my son being hurt. I truly don't worry about regular tournaments and have only rarely seen cases where I thought they may be over. However, a "National" event should NOT have such a problem! I couldn't agree MORE!! NO National Event should have faxed weigh-ins. Period! I've done a litte bit of digging and I haven't found another that allows them. So out of state kids can weigh several days before??? WOW!! Way NOT COOL!! How many out of state kids could there be. Make them walk across the scale mat side and give them a pound or two allowance. Anything else is very simply unfair. We will be coming from a few hours away and also have to stay the night. So we are effectivly being penalized for being from Indiana. Please understand, I'm not complaining about traveling to weigh in. That's the price you pay to be a wrestler and wrestling family regardless of the state you live in. You create an UNFAIR playing field allowing some to fax-in weights and not others. BIG black eye for what could otherwise be an awesome event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellrs Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Indy Nationals does not allow general faxed weigh-ins for all out of state wrestlers. There is an option though that is only allowed if pre-approved and for wrestlers that actually wrestle at a sanctioned event on Saturday. There is a form that must completed and signed by the tournament director or head official (including name and phone number for reference) that shows the Saturday morning weight. There are many events going on at this time of the year. This option allows wrestlers to participate that would not otherwise make it to weigh ins due to another tournament. My son competes in tournaments out of state all of the time and has been allowed to do this a few times. Do not confuse the limited faxed weigh in option that is offered by Indy Nationals with the local tournaments where mom and dad are using the bathroom scales or guessing at juniors weight and sending it in on their own. Weight challenges are also allowed although I am not sure what the guidelines are for them. I know it is not a perfect system but all efforts are made to keep it fair to the wrestlers that weigh in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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