MCKAJC Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I somewhat agree! Every tourney should have weigh ins! The honor system isn't flawed, it's the lying coaches and parents that are flawed. Hate to say that because most are great about it, it's the few that give the honor system a bad rap. Absolutely true!! It seems that the lure is impossible for some to pass on. "It's only five pounds" right? That's how it goes and there is NO denying it. We were at an event this year and heard a mom and dad telling their son "we dropped you down 7 pounds and you...". There is no avoiding those situations with faxed weigh-ins. That is just the way it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If tournament hosts would utilize the trackwrestling system for registration it would eliminate registration and payment at events. Wrestlers would also be asked to declare a weight at that time. The morning of the event, wrestlers would be required to go through skin checks and weigh-ins. If parents/coaches know the wrestlers weights will be checked, it will encourage them to be truthful when registering. Yes, it will take a little extra time to check weights but not nearly as much time as when all registration, payment and weigh-ins are held on site. According to what I have been told, utilizing trackwrestling for registration is less then $1 per wrestler. The ISWA is in the process of developing pairing clinics to train more people to use trackwrestling. I beleive this is the wave of the future and may eventually eliminate the faxed/emailed weigh-ins issue and still allow tournaments to start at a reasonable time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If tournament hosts would utilize the trackwrestling system for registration it would eliminate registration and payment at events. Wrestlers would also be asked to declare a weight at that time. The morning of the event, wrestlers would be required to go through skin checks and weigh-ins. If parents/coaches know the wrestlers weights will be checked, it will encourage them to be truthful when registering. Yes, it will take a little extra time to check weights but not nearly as much time as when all registration, payment and weigh-ins are held on site. According to what I have been told, utilizing trackwrestling for registration is less then $1 per wrestler. The ISWA is in the process of developing pairing clinics to train more people to use trackwrestling. I beleive this is the wave of the future and may eventually eliminate the faxed/emailed weigh-ins issue and still allow tournaments to start at a reasonable time. Amen! I hope Chad Red (whom I have only met once and is a heck of a nice guy) reads this thread and allows Sunday morning weigh-ins for the wrestlers in session 2 at 1pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If tournament hosts would utilize the trackwrestling system for registration it would eliminate registration and payment at events. Wrestlers would also be asked to declare a weight at that time. The morning of the event, wrestlers would be required to go through skin checks and weigh-ins. If parents/coaches know the wrestlers weights will be checked, it will encourage them to be truthful when registering. Yes, it will take a little extra time to check weights but not nearly as much time as when all registration, payment and weigh-ins are held on site. According to what I have been told, utilizing trackwrestling for registration is less then $1 per wrestler. The ISWA is in the process of developing pairing clinics to train more people to use trackwrestling. I beleive this is the wave of the future and may eventually eliminate the faxed/emailed weigh-ins issue and still allow tournaments to start at a reasonable time. I hope this happens. I also hope they all start utilizing the trackwrestling system for tournament pairing advancing the tournament with it. I realize that either takes the ability to use the schools internet or someone to purchase a mobile stick, but it takes care of pairing issues at the tournament and takes away the need for the extra paper use as parents can look it up on their phones online rather than track down the brackets in the hallways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I hope this happens. I also hope they all start utilizing the trackwrestling system for tournament pairing advancing the tournament with it. I realize that either takes the ability to use the schools internet or someone to purchase a mobile stick, but it takes care of pairing issues at the tournament and takes away the need for the extra paper use as parents can look it up on their phones online rather than track down the brackets in the hallways. What you suggest would be great but unfortunately some schools do not allow clubs to utilize their internet access and from what information I have gathered there is a monthly charge for the sprint cards, something like $60 per month. Also, many clubs do not have the computers, etc. it takes to run an event entirely on trackwrestling. But it is not that difficult to use trackwrestling for registration and pairing the first round. Even if you have to pair the rest of the tournament at matside the old fashion way it will help eliminate cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What you suggest would be great but unfortunately some schools do not allow clubs to utilize their internet access and from what information I have gathered there is a monthly charge for the sprint cards, something like $60 per month. Also, many clubs do not have the computers, etc. it takes to run an event entirely on trackwrestling. But it is not that difficult to use trackwrestling for registration and pairing the first round. Even if you have to pair the rest of the tournament at matside the old fashion way it will help eliminate cheating. That is where the clubs need the help of the HS coach. He typically can obtain the guest password in the least if not having his own log in credentials with the school. With this, there would be no problem. All that aside though, even the route you explain would be better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If tournament hosts would utilize the trackwrestling system for registration it would eliminate registration and payment at events. Wrestlers would also be asked to declare a weight at that time. The morning of the event, wrestlers would be required to go through skin checks and weigh-ins. If parents/coaches know the wrestlers weights will be checked, it will encourage them to be truthful when registering. Yes, it will take a little extra time to check weights but not nearly as much time as when all registration, payment and weigh-ins are held on site. According to what I have been told, utilizing trackwrestling for registration is less then $1 per wrestler. The ISWA is in the process of developing pairing clinics to train more people to use trackwrestling. I beleive this is the wave of the future and may eventually eliminate the faxed/emailed weigh-ins issue and still allow tournaments to start at a reasonable time. As always infolady thanks for your input. As I understand the ISWA is not a big fan of faxed weigh-ins in keeping with USA Wrestling. In most cases this is an attempt to attract more wrestlers. If it were intended to create convenience it would be offered to all. Not just those coming from out of state. IMO Middle School State attracts very good numbers and utilizes what might be the most fair weigh-in procedures. Morning of the event with 2# allowance. Discourages weight cuts as well. It will be interesting to watch those who fax weigh-ins and follow them on track at their own state tournaments. Another cool feature of trackwrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 *110* Jacob Stagg (8th) Indiana Mater Dei Southridge Mat Raid 2012 (01/29 - 01/29/2012) Schoolboy - 112 (1st) *110* Nick Lee (7th) Indiana Mater Dei IndianaMat Hoosier Preseason Open (09/11 - 09/11/2011) High School - 109 (1st) *110* Wyatt Montgomery (7th) Indiana Mater Dei Southridge Mat Raid 2012 (01/29 - 01/29/2012) Schoolboy - 105 (1st) *125* Blake Jourdan (8th) Indiana Mater Dei George Nemeth Middle School Tournament (1/28/12) 130 lbs. *125* Kurtis Wilderman (7th) Indiana Mater Dei Evansville Reitz Jr Panther Hill Classic (1/15/12) Schoolboy 120 *140* Seth Orth (8th) Indiana Mater Dei George Nemeth Middle School Tournament (1/28/12) 147 lbs. *Midlle School State weights* Which ones have been wrestling up a class or two for Mater Dei? Having some trouble finding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 As always infolady thanks for your input. As I understand the ISWA is not a big fan of faxed weigh-ins in keeping with USA Wrestling. In most cases this is an attempt to attract more wrestlers. If it were intended to create convenience it would be offered to all. Not just those coming from out of state. IMO Middle School State attracts very good numbers and utilizes what might be the most fair weigh-in procedures. Morning of the event with 2# allowance. Discourages weight cuts as well. It will be interesting to watch those who fax weigh-ins and follow them on track at their own state tournaments. Another cool feature of trackwrestling. Actually a 2 pound allowance attracts weight cutting. Whenever there is a weight allowance, others think --hmm, I might just be able to make that now. Weight allowances may have, in the beginning, been thought to go against weight cutting, but the end results have always shown the opposite to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Actually a 2 pound allowance attracts weight cutting. Whenever there is a weight allowance, others think --hmm, I might just be able to make that now. Weight allowances may have, in the beginning, been thought to go against weight cutting, but the end results have always shown the opposite to be true. Wait, What?? That's a 2 pound allowance with shoes and singlet on. And weigh-in as you walk to your mat to wrestle. Very curious how you think that could possibly attract weight cutting? We wrestled less than 20 min after weigh-in last year. No one will copy this because they aren't prepared to turn wrestlers away for not making their declared weight as MS state does. It's a$$$ and cents issue , nothing more. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 *110* Jacob Stagg (8th) Indiana Mater Dei Southridge Mat Raid 2012 (01/29 - 01/29/2012) Schoolboy - 112 (1st) *110* Nick Lee (7th) Indiana Mater Dei IndianaMat Hoosier Preseason Open (09/11 - 09/11/2011) High School - 109 (1st) *110* Wyatt Montgomery (7th) Indiana Mater Dei Southridge Mat Raid 2012 (01/29 - 01/29/2012) Schoolboy - 105 (1st) *125* Blake Jourdan (8th) Indiana Mater Dei George Nemeth Middle School Tournament (1/28/12) 130 lbs. *125* Kurtis Wilderman (7th) Indiana Mater Dei Evansville Reitz Jr Panther Hill Classic (1/15/12) Schoolboy 120 *140* Seth Orth (8th) Indiana Mater Dei George Nemeth Middle School Tournament (1/28/12) 147 lbs. *Midlle School State weights* Which ones have been wrestling up a class or two for Mater Dei? Having some trouble finding them. What?? I think you posted on the wrong topic. But thanks for the unsolicited info on your kids. This is a serious topic not HORN BLOWING : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierdad Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 The EMD kid in question weighed 118 when he wrestled, and beat, Reitz's stud at 127. EMD wrestlers frequently wrestle up a weightclass or two to get better competition. How petty you are to question a kid's weight because he is a far superior wrestler than your child. I believe this is what he was referring to maybe you're on the wrong topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 But thanks for the unsolicited info on your kids. This is a serious topic not HORN BLOWING What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What are you talking about? This is a conversation about the "honor system for ISWA tournaments" or faxed weigh-ins. Are you saying these kids you've listed wrestled under their real weight?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipljeff Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What about having the wrestlers step on the scale at skin check and instead of making a check on his arm we write his actual weight right there on his arm for all to see. I'm not suggesting that we re-pair based on this weigh-in. My hope is that the shame, scorn and peer-pressure associated with seeing my Intermediate 50 pounder out there wrestling with a big bold 56 written on his arm would be enough of a deterrent. This way we can still use track wrestling and faxed in weights to speed up the tournaments and there won't be the accusatory whispers, glances or outright arguments about what each kid weighs. We will ALL know at a glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Wait, What?? That's a 2 pound allowance with shoes and singlet on. And weigh-in as you walk to your mat to wrestle. Very curious how you think that could possibly attract weight cutting? We wrestled less than 20 min after weigh-in last year. No one will copy this because they aren't prepared to turn wrestlers away for not making their declared weight as MS state does. It's a$$$ and cents issue , nothing more. So... I apologize, didn't know that every kid was weighed just prior to wrestling. That would act as a deterrent. I was merely commenting about a 2 lb allowance. I don't see where any issue would be with what kids have to weigh in wearing. As long as everyone has to do it, why would we need to give any allowances. Weight allowances just encourage weight cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What about having the wrestlers step on the scale at skin check and instead of making a check on his arm we write his actual weight right there on his arm for all to see. I'm not suggesting that we re-pair based on this weigh-in. My hope is that the shame, scorn and peer-pressure associated with seeing my Intermediate 50 pounder out there wrestling with a big bold 56 written on his arm would be enough of a deterrent. This way we can still use track wrestling and faxed in weights to speed up the tournaments and there won't be the accusatory whispers, glances or outright arguments about what each kid weighs. We will ALL know at a glance. The embarrassment should not be on the kid, rather on the parents/coaches. The dishonesty does end up bleeding down to the kid, but initially it is not the child's fault. What I am trying to say is that it would be less of a discomfort for the kid to be eliminated from the tournament and by doing such without paying the parents back, whosoever did the weights wrong would have to deal with his/her own negative repercussions. Now this is not to say that coaches don't just make legitimate mistakes sometimes, but by making them pay for it (they could pay to have the kid move up a weight), the issue would not take place too often. If it is the parents fault, then they can pay to move him up or just go home. It won't take long for them to learn the lesson as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Problem is then the whole tournament is thrown off while the bracket is re-made. It would seem make declared weight or go home would keep em honest. If they want to wrestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think a little training on trackwrestling would solve this. Heck these brackets are not seeded, so if you are doing it by hand, it doesn't take long to add a guy to a bracket and make sure it is balanced. Same goes for dropping a guy. Obviously, some tournament helpers could use a quick training just prior, but other than that, it shouldn't be a big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2cash Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 1. I was involved when Indy Nationals premiered and there was faxed weigh ins. it modeled off of liberty nationals accepting weights from Virginia duals. 2. I don't believe Chad Red is the tournament director. 3. I like declare your weight. show up day of and weigh in and if you don't make declared weight, you scratch. period. no pay to move brackets. just go home. thanks for the donation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinubus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 1. I was involved when Indy Nationals premiered and there was faxed weigh ins. it modeled off of liberty nationals accepting weights from Virginia duals. 2. I don't believe Chad Red is the tournament director. 3. I like declare your weight. show up day of and weigh in and if you don't make declared weight, you scratch. period. no pay to move brackets. just go home. thanks for the donation. What if the coach sent it in and made a mistake? We are all human. I cannot see causing that sort of internalized stress on a child because of a mistake a coach may have made. At my club, we have parents who do not like to pay online, so they pay the coach and the team puts them into trackwrestling. If this were high school ages, I could agree with you, but for little kids, I think it is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2cash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I never said I liked it. in fact I don't. I was clarifying that it has always been implemented. As a 8 th grader last year my son wrestled a kid from Illinois that weighed in friday night for highschool state and my kid couldn't lift his feet off the floor he was so big. I feel if a wrestler can make the weight cut he deserves to be there but the equalizer should be wrestling then and there not 2 days to recover. that goes for every tournament unless the playing field is even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I never said I liked it. in fact I don't. I was clarifying that it has always been implemented. As a 8 th grader last year my son wrestled a kid from Illinois that weighed in friday night for highschool state and my kid couldn't lift his feet off the floor he was so big. I feel if a wrestler can make the weight cut he deserves to be there but the equalizer should be wrestling then and there not 2 days to recover. that goes for every tournament unless the playing field is even Hey papacash, first congrats on the semi-state great job!! I wanted to clearify here too. I said earlier in this thread this tournament has always been well run and IMO some of the coolest awards around. They have always done a good job making improvments from yr to yr. My frustration is with ANY tournament that calls themselfs "nationals" and has Dominator points on the line(not that we are going for Dominator)allowing faxed weigh-in from anyone in or out of state. Also, I do remember when this tournament was held at Canseo and did not allow faxed weigh-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosoccermomhere Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hey papacash, first congrats on the semi-state great job!! Thanks Mike Also, I do remember when this tournament was held at Canseo and did not allow faxed weigh-in. You just didnt know about it. I wanted to clearify here too. I said earlier in this thread this tournament has always been well run and IMO some of the coolest awards around. They have always done a good job making improvments from yr to yr. Your Right Mark has made great strides in building this tournament. It has always attracted some of the toughest competition and is run about as efficient as any tournament out there. Mark has not only helped bring Indiana wrestling up to par or above but pioneered it in many ways. sorry I didnt realize i was posting under wrong screen name . T. Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NearFallNotNeeded Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I somewhat agree! Every tourney should have weigh ins! The honor system isn't flawed, it's the lying coaches and parents that are flawed. Hate to say that because most are great about it, it's the few that give the honor system a bad rap. Sure, that's what I'm saying. It is flawed because of the coaches and parents entering their wrestlers under inaccurate weights. I guess what I'm saying is the same thing your saying. The honor system is flawed by the few who do not honor it. This weekend our elementary team wrestled at the South Gibson tournament which was the first all year we went to with weigh ins at registration. I was proud to enter a team with not one wrestler needing to wrestle up from their regular weight class. However, it was no surprised to see quite a few of the wrestlers we had faced throughout the year wrestling in higher weight classes. I'm not sure if this happens due to coaches and parents lying or coaches and parents not know where to draw the line after giving a wrestler a half a pound, then it becomes a pound, then a pound and a half...etc. Event held weigh ins simply eliminate this occurrence. Also, no events ever start on time due to entry scratches and other things. Popping a wrestler on the scale during skin checks is really not too time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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