CP/MD team state updates

[decbell1]

Feel bad for Roach does not get to compete in last high school match.  

 

I wish they would have protested after the match or let them wrestle.  I think Roach goes up 15 lbs and gets the 3-2 win

 

Hats off to Shrewsbury on a gutty performance.

 

If they were dumb enough to not know the rules, they didn't deserve to win. I do feel bad for Roach, just like I felt bad for Harper when his coach cost him an undefeated season a few years back.

 

Why in the world would they not even at least ask about the rule before doing it?

 

Wow

[polytropos]

Feel bad for Roach does not get to compete in last high school match.  

 

I wish they would have protested after the match or let them wrestle.  I think Roach goes up 15 lbs and gets the 3-2 win

 

 

 

Do you think so little of Sims and Welch? That is crazy. It isn't like this is Tsirtsis going up 15 pounds to wrestle an average or even above average wrestler. Roach won state at his own weight by 2 points. Sims is a 4 time placer who lost in the finals by 3 to an undefeated and very good (Big 10 good, apparently) wrestler. I don't know if you are just going by his record, but almost all of those losses were injury defaults.

 

Again, I am not sure Roach's absence really mattered to the outcome. Unfortunately we will never know, but since CP won at 152 anyway the absolute most that he could have added would have been 3 points.

[Bruschi]

Do you think so little of Sims and Welch? That is crazy. It isn't like this is Tsirtsis going up 15 pounds to wrestle an average or even above average wrestler. Roach won state at his own weight by 2 points. Sims is a 4 time placer who lost in the finals by 3 to an undefeated and very good (Big 10 good, apparently) wrestler. I don't know if you are just going by his record, but almost all of those losses were injury defaults.

 

Again, I am not sure Roach's absence really mattered to the outcome. Unfortunately we will never know, but since CP won at 152 anyway the absolute most that he could have added would have been 3 points.

 

Roach controlled Sims last year 8-2 or 7-2 at State.  It would have been great for wrestling.  Sims would have been the favorite, but I feel Roach would have won 3-2.  Guess we will never know. 

 

The Schroeder match was the key.  Fuqua gets three stalling calls and losses.  That was the key, changed the whole CP lineup around IMO. 

[Silence Dogood]

 

Again, I am not sure Roach's absence really mattered to the outcome. Unfortunately we will never know, but since CP won at 152 anyway the absolute most that he could have added would have been 3 points.

 

Schurg might have been able avoid the pin against Sims. That would be a few more points.

[gstemv81]

Roach beat Sims last year 145 quarters by 7-3.  I wonder what Roach weighed in today at.  He would have to be an underdog giving up 15 lbs. to Sims this year, or even 8.

 

Sims WBF 1:59 over Shurg in State prelims.  Staying off his back for 6 minutes this week would have been a big challenge.

[Alduflux]

Can anyone explain exactly what happened?  Was Roach warming up, healthy, and going to wrestle 160?  Was he pulled back at the last second by an official or MD coaches seeing it?

 

Also, what exactly would the penalty have been if he did wrestle and won?  Would it then be a team forfeit or perhaps just a coach suspension/penalty?

[pin2win1]

i could be wrong... but i believe there is a penalty for sending an ineligbible wrestler to the scorer's table is there not?

[sarto]

Definitely. Hats off to Shrewsbury. I took a moment to pray for their family after the match. As a MD fan I am thrilled with the outcome, but I was prepared to take comfort in what the win would mean for his family.

 

Exactly.  

 

Shrewbury showed an incredible and rare depth of character.  My hat is off to him and my prayers are with him and his family.  Congratulations to both sides for one heck of a match.

[throw45]

Big Fuqua's match seems to be the most pivotal of the meet, but does anyone know what Roach weighed in at today?  If for some reason he didn't make 145, that might have been where the idea that he could go 160 came from...

[polytropos]

Roach beat Sims last year 145 quarters by 7-3.  I wonder what Roach weighed in today at.  He would have to be an underdog giving up 15 lbs. to Sims this year, or even 8.

 

Sims WBF 1:59 over Shurg in State prelims.  Staying off his back for 6 minutes this week would have been a big challenge.

 

This isn't last year. Clearly Sims developed quite a bit physically since that point and Roach stayed pretty much the same. 15 pounds is a lot of weight to give up to that high a caliber of wrestler.

 

But again, that move was illegal. The question is, what effect does having Roach at 152 have. And I would contend that the outcome of the meet was not decided by this coaching blunder. Yes it was stupid, and if I were CP's coach I would be REALLY mad at myself, but I would not say that the loss is his fault.

[Alduflux]

What were the results of 145, 152, 160?

[Coach Wadkins]

CP was down 21-19 after Tsirtsis' TF @ 140.

If a Roach WBF happens @ 145, CP goes up 25-21.

If Flamme still gets his DEC up @152, CP goes up 28-21.

Sims is still favored over Schurg @ 160...a  major only makes it 28-25 CP going to 171.

The same result at 171 makes it 28 all and a TB...that is...if EMD doesn't get a TF/F at 160.

 

Most of us 2nd  guessers on here haven't been in a tight ass dual like that where match management and shuffling lineups was taking place in such a high profile...loud... atmosphere. It is very easy to lose track of weights and match ups and what the other team has left too. It is just like playing battleship with a coin flip affecting your decision making process.

 

Trying to lay blame on who's fault the loss was is ridiculous...team sport...team loss!!  It was just a great dual between two great programs...wrestle it again tomorrow...you get a different outcome. Good Luck EMD...great season CP Dawgs!!

 

[Silence Dogood]

What were the results of 145, 152, 160?

 

145 - Flamme dec. Riggs - 8-1

 

152 - Schurg dec. Weinzapfel - 11-9 OT

 

160 Sims pin Moore 1:35

[julio]

I have been in that position, and you go over all the possibilities the night before and have a planned line-up.  Heat of the dual has nothing to do with it, they should have known the rules as far as what they could and could not do.  Poor planning on the coaches does not mean the kids lost it.

[sarto]

CP was down 21-19 after Tsirtsis' TF @ 140.

If a Roach WBF happens @ 145, CP goes up 25-21.

If Flamme still gets his DEC up @152, CP goes up 28-21.

Sims is still favored over Schurg @ 160...a  major only makes it 28-25 CP going to 171.

The same result at 171 makes it 28 all and a TB...that is...if EMD doesn't get a TF/F at 160.

 

Most of us 2nd  guessers on here haven't been in a tight ass dual like that where match management and shuffling lineups was taking place in such a high profile...loud... atmosphere. It is very easy to lose track of weights and match ups and what the other team has left too. It is just like playing battleship with a coin flip affecting your decision making process.

 

Trying to lay blame on who's fault the loss was is ridiculous...team sport...team loss!!   It was just a great dual between two great programs...wrestle it again tomorrow...you get a different outcome. Good Luck EMD...great season CP Dawgs!!

 

 

Good call, coach!

[Bruschi]

CP was down 21-19 after Tsirtsis' TF @ 140.

If a Roach WBF happens @ 145, CP goes up 25-21.

If Flamme still gets his DEC up @152, CP goes up 28-21.

Sims is still favored over Schurg @ 160...a  major only makes it 28-25 CP going to 171.

The same result at 171 makes it 28 all and a TB...that is...if EMD doesn't get a TF/F at 160.

 

Most of us 2nd  guessers on here haven't been in a tight ass dual like that where match management and shuffling lineups was taking place in such a high profile...loud... atmosphere. It is very easy to lose track of weights and match ups and what the other team has left too. It is just like playing battleship with a coin flip affecting your decision making process.

 

Trying to lay blame on who's fault the loss was is ridiculous...team sport...team loss!!   It was just a great dual between two great programs...wrestle it again tomorrow...you get a different outcome. Good Luck EMD...great season CP Dawgs!!

 

Could not agree more.  Many of those lower weight matches could go another way on any given day.  Fuqua's match seemed to be a big upset that went MD way.  After 125 I thought CP had it won.  Schroeder came up big.  Have to wonder how healthy Fuqua was, been battling injuries all year.  

 

[sarto]

Hopefully Sims will get his State Championship.........

 

Indeed!

[munges]

CP was down 21-19 after Tsirtsis' TF @ 140.

If a Roach WBF happens @ 145, CP goes up 25-21.

If Flamme still gets his DEC up @152, CP goes up 28-21.

Sims is still favored over Schurg @ 160...a  major only makes it 28-25 CP going to 171.

The same result at 171 makes it 28 all and a TB...that is...if EMD doesn't get a TF/F at 160.

 

Most of us 2nd  guessers on here haven't been in a tight ass dual like that where match management and shuffling lineups was taking place in such a high profile...loud... atmosphere. It is very easy to lose track of weights and match ups and what the other team has left too. It is just like playing battleship with a coin flip affecting your decision making process.

 

Trying to lay blame on who's fault the loss was is ridiculous...team sport...team loss!!   It was just a great dual between two great programs...wrestle it again tomorrow...you get a different outcome. Good Luck EMD...great season CP Dawgs!!

 

 

Your kidding right? The coaches take a state champ out of the line because they made a mistake and it is a team loss : If I were the coaches I would step up and take full responsibility for this loss. Regardless of how you play it out the second best person on their team did not wrestle because of the coaches.

[polytropos]

Your kidding right? The coaches take a state champ out of the line because they made a mistake and it is a team loss : If I were the coaches I would step up and take full responsibility for this loss. Regardless of how you play it out the second best person on their team did not wrestle because of the coaches.

 

Could you point out where his analysis is wrong? This was a bonehead move, but even if Roach wrestles that doesn't give CP the win.

[throw45]

I tend to agree that had Roach wrestled, the final outcome would not have changed.  Closer score very likely, but EMD still wins.

[munges]

It might or might not have changed it. I was not defending a different outcome but the fact that as coaches a serious blunder like this could have affected momentum etc.

 

What does taking Roach out of the line up do emotionally for the other matches. That is something that cannot be gauged. If and buts we can argue either way but CP coaches blew it in a major way.

[throw45]

"What does taking Roach out of the line up do emotionally for the other matches. That is something that cannot be gauged.T"

 

Good point Munges, hadn't thought about that.  It's possible that the "shock and awe" of seeing Roach deemed ineligible to wrestle had a negative impact for CP from a momentum standpoint.  I wonder if the CP 160 was "really" ready when he found himself being sent to the mat to wrestle Sims.  It's really too bad that after all Shrewsbury has been through this week, it came down to his match.  He showed great courage!  The irony in starting at 189 is unreal.  I still want to know if today's weigh-in had anything to do with the way it played out.

[Mr. RIght]

Not having roach in the line up certainly doesn't help CP chances. You would think roach could get a fall at either 45 or 52 and hope schurg would go our to wrestle sims not to get pinned. I know sims pinned him last week but schurg was wrestling for the win. It's easier to not get pinned when that's what your wrestling for. I think the biggest disappoint is that Vlink's mess up cost a kid his last chance to wrestle in a high school match.

[digninrk]

I understand why the State Officials say they would not let Roach Wrestle,  but where in the rules does it say that Roach could not wrestle.  My understanding of the rules is that if you weign at a certain weight you can only wrestle up one weight class from where you started.  If Roach weighed in at 152 he should have been able to wrestle 160.  Where in the rules does it say you can't?

[gstemv81]

Roach certified at 145 and won State at 145.  He could wrestle 145 or 152 today. 

 

I do remember MD's Blake Maurer bumping up two classes to 215 against New Castle at 2004 Team State even though he was 171.  Apparently the rules have changed back in the last 5-6 years.