AJ Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I was reading through the ISWA book again the other night and the numbers really caught my eye. I am doing this off memory so it may be a little bit off: Folkstyle state participants - 2,006 Freestyle participants - 1,067 Greco - 423 Should our state be worried about the huge drop from folkstyle to freestyle wrestling? Almost 1,000 less participants. With the down economy, there is a chance that many people will not be able to wrestle in all 3 state championships. Is it possible the freestyle and greco numbers could actually fall more? Or is this data nothing but an indication that Indiana is becoming a state that is in love with folkstyle wrestling? Any thoughts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Somewhat going along with the topic. A few observations that I've made: 1. One is how increase the folkstyle numbers even more. I know that the northern part of the state participates in folkstyle USA Wrestling events more than those in the southern half. Much if this may be due to many southern area schools having middle school season that last until around March where as many northern area school finish up earlier and start sending kids to folkstyle USA events. Go to along with that the coaches are still tied up in middle school and/or high school events which makes it hard to run an elementary program that would kids from some of those area the practice to participate in folkstyle USA wrestling events. If the southern half of the state would adjust their season or the USA wrestling would adjust theirs we could have even more folkstyle USA wrestling participation. 2. The second is another reason for the lack of freestyle numbers. With soccer, baseball, and other summer events starting earlier for the youth and even some high school boys it make it hard to also participate in the freestyle season. Seems like the constant need to start club level sports at an earlier age and demand more time of those kids may also be detracting from the freestyle numbers. I think the constant changes in rules and style different also effects kids wanting to do freestyle, but the constant demand to be in so many place at once may be just as much of a factor for many younger kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 and at $35 dollars a tournament i expect that the numbers wont go up anytime soon in this economy :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I blame George W. Bush for the lack of freestyle and greco participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016GrecoGold Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Or it could be that the state organizations keep scheduling more and more folkstyle events and less Freestyle and Greco events which is counter productive to the Olympic styles and more people think they should just wrestle folkstyle because of high school when they are not looking at the big picture of what wrestling is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I blame George W. Bush for the lack of freestyle and greco participants. And it's only going to get worse...Obama is a basketball guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Midget - I don't agree with you a lot, but I'll give credit where credit is due - that was pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 With 892 Novice division and under wrestlers competing in folkstyle state, it looks like folkstyle state will be huge again this year when they add in the schoolboy and up divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Other reasons for the drop off at Freestyle and Greco is that there are less clubs/coaches at those levels. A dad that wrestled in high school may be willing to coach folkstyle, but less willing for the others. The opportunities are just less, and as other posters mentioned, it makes other sports difficult. Should we be concerned with the complete lack of beach wrestling as well? ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I think it's partially because folkstyle is an after school sport, freestyle and greco take more time and effort. For some people learning the different rules makes it confusing as well, so they don't put in the extra effort. The most concerning number of all: Female bikini jello wrestling - 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funk Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I noticed the drop off when Freestyle and Greco changed the rules drastically. I can't pinpoint the date but it is when the pushout rule started and the best out of three period rule started. That was the year I saw a big dropoff in numbers. When my son wrestled freestly he would have 30-40 kids at state and when the rules changed the numbers were cut in half. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I noticed the drop off when Freestyle and Greco changed the rules drastically. I can't pinpoint the date but it is when the pushout rule started and the best out of three period rule started. That was the year I saw a big dropoff in numbers. When my son wrestled freestly he would have 30-40 kids at state and when the rules changed the numbers were cut in half. Just my opinion. I agree, when the rules changed the numbers started to drop off drastically. I think that coupled with more folkstyle opportunities have contributed to the Olympic styles drop-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianmom Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I noticed the drop off when Freestyle and Greco changed the rules drastically. I can't pinpoint the date but it is when the pushout rule started and the best out of three period rule started. That was the year I saw a big dropoff in numbers. When my son wrestled freestly he would have 30-40 kids at state and when the rules changed the numbers were cut in half. Just my opinion. I agree, when the rules changed the numbers started to drop off drastically. I think that coupled with more folkstyle opportunities have contributed to the Olympic styles drop-off. My son really enjoyed greco and freestyle until the pushout rule was introduced. He said the focus was one who could push who out of the boundaries. It wasn't about skill anymore. He continued wrestling those styles, but he wasn't as exited about it like he was before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronschoolcraft Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I noticed the drop off when Freestyle and Greco changed the rules drastically. I can't pinpoint the date but it is when the pushout rule started and the best out of three period rule started. That was the year I saw a big dropoff in numbers. When my son wrestled freestly he would have 30-40 kids at state and when the rules changed the numbers were cut in half. Just my opinion. This is when my sons quit doing freestyle. For a long time, we wrestled every weekend of folkstyle season and every weekend of freestyle season (even though the spring weather was very tempting not to). When the rules changed, my sons said they would rather be outside riding dirt bikes than participate in something they thought was ridiculous. In my opinion, the rules makers really screwed the sport up with that change...but, that's just me and I'm sure I'll be labled an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I noticed the drop off when Freestyle and Greco changed the rules drastically. I can't pinpoint the date but it is when the pushout rule started and the best out of three period rule started. That was the year I saw a big dropoff in numbers. When my son wrestled freestly he would have 30-40 kids at state and when the rules changed the numbers were cut in half. Just my opinion. This is when my sons quit doing freestyle. For a long time, we wrestled every weekend of folkstyle season and every weekend of freestyle season (even though the spring weather was very tempting not to). When the rules changed, my sons said they would rather be outside riding dirt bikes than participate in something they thought was ridiculous. In my opinion, the rules makers really screwed the sport up with that change...but, that's just me and I'm sure I'll be labled an idiot. I agree with you there, the new rules are more confusing and it was a strange move. It really hurt the sport and I can only hope they change them back, or at least modify them. Anyone know the motivation behind the changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I know I am in the minority here, but I actually like the stay in bounds (push out rule) It forces kids to wrstle in the center of the mat, or pay a price for wanting to make sure that any action taken happens on the out of bounds line so they dont give up a take down. I wish they would put that in place for folkstyle. As far as the greco rules, you have to admit that they can lead to some very nice throws if the guy on top knows what he is doing. The clinch rule for freestyle is a bit odd, but at the elite levels, they were tired of low scoring matches, and like it or not, you usually get a score out of it. All the rules were put in place to increase scoring chances for wrestlers. I think they have done that. As far as the rules driving away freestyle wrestlers, I am not sold on that idea. I think we as a state were headed in that direction before the new rules went into place. With the advent of so many more chances to wrestle folkstyle throughout the year, I think kids felt that they were geting enough mat time there and could play other sports in the spring and not lose much. Before all the folkstyle tournaments, you only had one choice. If you wanted to wrestle year round, you wrestled freestyle. Now you can wrestle close to year round in folkstyle, and not lose to much time on the mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow77 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I know I am in the minority here, but I actually like the stay in bounds (push out rule) It forces kids to wrstle in the center of the mat, or pay a price for wanting to make sure that any action taken happens on the out of bounds line so they dont give up a take down. I wish they would put that in place for folkstyle. As far as the greco rules, you have to admit that they can lead to some very nice throws if the guy on top knows what he is doing. The clinch rule for freestyle is a bit odd, but at the elite levels, they were tired of low scoring matches, and like it or not, you usually get a score out of it. All the rules were put in place to increase scoring chances for wrestlers. I think they have done that. As far as the rules driving away freestyle wrestlers, I am not sold on that idea. I think we as a state were headed in that direction before the new rules went into place. With the advent of so many more chances to wrestle folkstyle throughout the year, I think kids felt that they were geting enough mat time there and could play other sports in the spring and not lose much. Before all the folkstyle tournaments, you only had one choice. If you wanted to wrestle year round, you wrestled freestyle. Now you can wrestle close to year round in folkstyle, and not lose to much time on the mat. I agree... I like the new freestyle and Greco rules...I know alot of people who use the new rules as a reason not to compete in those styles but honestly I believe had they stuck it out and adapted to them they would enjoy it as much as I do...I was just as skeptical as anyone when the new rules were introduced but just after a few weeks of learning and seeing it in action I was convinced it was the right move.....I enjoy the freestyle & Greco season very much... Really no matter if you like or dislike the new rules...the one thing stays the same....It's still wrestling...any wrestling is good.....I think all of the best coaches in the U.S. stress the importance of participation in the olympic styles....When Dan Gable says we shouldn't do it maybe I'll change my mind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think the freestyle/greco rule changes had a big impact on turnout numbers in my opinion (although having more folkstyle tournaments has contributed to the fall off as well). I too for a long time, didn't like the idea of the stepout rule or the best of 3 period format (mostly out of ignorance). It was when I watched the Olympics this past summer that made my opinion do a 180. The new rules have created more scoring opportunities and the match times are cut down drastically. I remember watching some matches on youtube. pre-new rules. Alot of the times the matches go around 10+ minutes. Now, matches are done between 6-8 minutes. I think quicker matches are good for fans, especially during tournaments. I'm also of the opinion that freestyle (never really wrestled greco) helps your mat awareness. It helps you learn to keep your hips facing the mat, since exposure points are more prevalent. So if you're tough to turn in freestyle/greco. I'd think you'd be just that much tougher to turn in folkstye. I just wish wrestlers would see the benefits of it and try it out. But then again, this is America and we don't exactly turn on a dime because the rest of the world does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 At the mat officials meeting (which is required attendance for any club hosting a freestyle meet, there were 4 of us there) last friday night Tom Clark and Mark Mundy gave the reasonings behind the pushout rule. The push out rule was put into effect to take the match out of the ref's hands and into the competitors hands. The passivity rule was being used and abused on the international level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 At the mat officials meeting (which is required attendance for any club hosting a freestyle meet, there were 4 of us there) last friday night Tom Clark and Mark Mundy gave the reasonings behind the pushout rule. The push out rule was put into effect to take the match out of the ref's hands and into the competitors hands. The passivity rule was being used and abused on the international level. So do the refs like the new rules more or less than the previous rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianmom Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 At the mat officials meeting (which is required attendance for any club hosting a freestyle meet, there were 4 of us there) last friday night Tom Clark and Mark Mundy gave the reasonings behind the pushout rule. The push out rule was put into effect to take the match out of the ref's hands and into the competitors hands. The passivity rule was being used and abused on the international level. Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand the reasoning behind the pushout rule. My son continued to wrestle freestyle and greco until he graduated and in his college wrestling you will find him using some of the freestyle moves to get himself into a position of scoring for folkstyle competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The thing about the new rules is people were scared of them and didn't TRY to understand them. I actually like the new rules now and the kids have adjusted very well to them. The pushout rule is good because it keeps the action going on the mat. Unlike folkstyle where you have people play the edge, you can't in freestyle. The two out of three periods is good because you are never out of a match after a bad period. It also teaches kids how to hold on to leads or push the action to come from behind in a match. The kids almost always will get two or three matches in a single freestyle or greco match because each period essentially is a different match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Maybe I've been reading the wrong rules, where is the online version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 http://themat.com/section.php?section_id=8 Look under rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ok, I had been looking at the FILA rules and must have misread some of that, looking at them now even made more sense. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts