GrecoCoach

If we're talking college success, shouldn't we include 4x national champ Lefever?  And wasn't Kayla Miracle a 4x college national champ (and 2x olympian)?

I'm not saying they are GOATs, but they have had more college success than any other Indiana high school natives.

16 hours ago, piscis1956 said:

(Don’t know where Grecoref was from.)

Ohio originally.

Fishers/Noblesville area when he moved to Indiana.

17 hours ago, Coach Brobst said:

HSE has a few options:

 

Jack Chastain is the career wins leader and Qualified as a Sophomore, took 5th twice

 

Austin Holmes qualified 3 times and won 2 4th place medals his Sophomore and Junior year. He’s second all time in wins.

 

Matt Irick likely would have been the guy had he not been hurt his Junior year. 2 time qualifier, 5th placer.

 

Jake Simone was a headlock and a bad draw away from maybe being the guy: Sophomore year he’s ranked top 4 in state, Regional Champ, up 6-2 on David Pierson in ticket round, in on another single, the patented DP headlock takes him out. Junior year, wins 8th place medal, Senior year, ranked 4th, loses to Eldred of Westfield 2-1 in Regionals, Eldred takes 2nd that year to Seltzer, who you guessed it, was Simone’s ticket round match that year. Awful.

 

As it lays: Andrew Irick is likely the guy. 2 time medalist in his 3 years as a starter taking 4th as a Junior, runner-up his Senior year in 2020 after a Semi-state title.

 

Only 2 time qualifier since then has been Max Broom, who never medaled but is the career leader in falls and won more matches with only one move (cradle) than anyone I’ve ever seen.

 

Got a crop of 7th/8th graders that have as much if not more credentials coming in than any of those guys. Hoping for that first champ in the next few seasons

I can add some older options for HSE to your list...

Brent Farrell - qualifier and 2nd in 1996 to James Brimm

Spencer Irick - qualifier and 3rd in 2016 with memorable upset over Davison on Friday night.

Pat Robinson - 3rd in 2010 with close battles to the champ and runner up that year

Austin Neibarger - 8th and 5th in 2013, but the 8th place was for Cathedral freshman year

Thomas Pompei - 6th in 2006 and now head coach for Indiana Tech

10 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

 

15. Requiring at least one coach in the corner of a match.

 

I'm imagining the realistic scenario of a JV tournament with 2 wrestlers from the same team facing each other, and no coaches in either corner or just 1 coach sitting quietly in one corner.  Many teams don't like coaching against their own wrestlers, so this happens quite a bit.

Fishers High School

Mitch Sliga

2x State Champ, 2x 3rd Place

5x Fargo National Champ

Jr World Team Member

My best guess is that Joe is calmly pointing out locked hands to the ref.

2 hours ago, Lawdiggity said:

Thanks!  So with 7/8 and 6/8 teams sending kids to State and 24 and 23 total qualifiers respectively for DAC and HCC I would say those conferences appear to be the deepest in Indiana. 

I agree that they are both very deep conferences.  The 2 schools in the HCC that didn't get a qualifier are Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield.  Both of those schools have solid, ranked, state-caliber wrestlers that just didn't get through semi state.

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Avon - 5

Brownsburg - 9

Fishers - 2

Franklin Central - 2

Noblesville - 2

Zionsville - 3

Total Qualifiers - 23

1st at Semi State - 7

2nd at Semi State - 7

3rd at Semi State - 6

4th at Semi State - 3

3 hours ago, ALittle said:

Didn’t the injury take place before the coaches decision to default. They could’ve restarted ‘wrestling’ and then the coach can make that decision but since the medical staff deemed unable to continue I didn’t think the coaches had the chance to do anything.

Around 10 years ago, the NFHS changed/clarified the rule that allows coaches to default their wrestler at any time - even during recovery time.  Before that change, the only way to "do the right thing" would be to have the injured wrestler line up for the ref to blow the whistle then stop the match to default - which is even more dangerous for the injured wrestler.  It was a good rule change designed for rare situations exactly like this one.

36 minutes ago, Galagore said:

Thank you for the thorough response. We agree on the appropriateness of class wrestling. We disagree on the emptiness of class wrestling accomplishments.

 

I am not sure why or how the schools are, were, or will be placed into sectionals. However, it is hard to argue against this logic: If any of that decision is made based on school size then a future logical conclusion is a classed tournament.

When has the IHSAA ever made a decision based on "logic"?

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

10 so far

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/1Jv53fJhmSjI4nLLtWLd7lBqpZDju877i

Oh no!  Hopefully this doesn't become BracketGate2024 

I just want to clarify what is being proposed here...

If a wrestler asks the ref to stop or pause the match for the 1st injury time, then choice of position is given to the opponent.  But if a wrestler is trying to keep going and the ref notices a possible injury so the match is stopped to check on the wrestler and that results in the 1st injury time, then no choice of position is given.  The difference is who initiates the injury time to be taken - the wrestler or the ref.

I can agree with it used like this.  But I don't agree with automatically giving choice on the first injury time for high school kids.

On 10/23/2023 at 10:54 AM, ReformedPoster said:

Not having Bellmont is borderline criminal

I wouldn't be surprised if the AI thinks Bellmont and Belmont are two different schools and not combining their successes.  How is it supposed to know that half the state can't spell the school correctly?

Here's a crazy idea that I haven't thought all the way through yet...

What if we kept the riding time point without backpoints, but if a wrestler gets called for stalling on top, he loses all of his riding time advantage (back to 0:00)? 

I think the stalling criteria has become much more objective (especially on top) so it isn't completely putting it in the ref's hands, but it would encourage more activity on top working for a turn without penalizing a wrestler whose opponent is good at defending turns.

Again, I haven't thought this through, but it at first glance it seems that this would accomplish the same goal while still rewarding a dominant, aggressive wrestler.

1 hour ago, rrschott said:

I get what you're going for, and I don't hate it, but it does lead to some questions.  How does this work in the 2nd/3rd period when someone is starting from the top position with no takedown?  At that point, you're kind of punishing the person who's successfully riding their opponent by resetting to neutral even though the person on bottom didn't earn it.  At that point, you're rewarding the person who's better on their feet.  What if the person on top has gotten a turn (or more), but at the 1 minute mark isn't in the process of another turn/takedown attempt?  

Top wrestler is rewarded by not giving up an escape point.  If you can get away in less than a minute and your opponent can't, then you're a point ahead.

I'd treat the pinning combination like when refs wait to award nearfall until the hold is released.  If someone has gotten a turn (or more), then he is most likely ahead in points.  From a fan perspective, I'd prefer to see them back on their feet for a more exciting finish instead of the guy ahead just riding him out for the win.

We could make it simpler and create more action if...

When a wrestler gets on top (takedown, reversal, or start of 2nd/3rd period), the clock starts - always starts from zero.  After 1 minute, if not in a pinning situation/hold, stop the match and start them in neutral with no escape point.  This basically gives the "point" advantage to the one who rides for a minute straight.  And it allows both wrestlers the same chance for it in 2nd/3rd period.  More neutral helps create more action, but still rewards those who can ride and punishes those who can't get out on bottom.

The match at 152 is the only finals match that does not include a wrestler from Brownsburg, Center Grove, or Crown Point.

Even more interesting, in all the other 13 finals matches, Brownsburg, Center Grove, and Crown Point never wrestle each other head to head.

13 hours ago, rdrodd1 said:

NC 285 Burgett and Branham

 

That's a rematch from last year's semistate.  Branham upset Burgett in overtime last year.

The IHSAA should not be able to dictate what teams are allowed at events outside of Indiana.  If they want to limit our own travel, that's within their power.  If they want to limit who Indiana schools can host, that's also within their power (arguably).  But the rule as it has stood for decades for events outside of Indiana within 300 miles is the problem.

We used to go to a holiday tournament in Ohio and worked with their AD to make sure all the schools were within Indiana's 300 mile rule.  After the first couple of years going, their AD wanted to expand the tournament to make it better, but some of the schools were a little farther than 300 miles.  That Ohio school had to tell them no for us to be able to keep coming.  Eventually we just dropped out of it so they could manage their own tournament how they wanted.

22 hours ago, MattM said:

Probably should be happy they have any sort of separation criteria and regular brackets.  Back in the day it was straight luck of the draw and in verticals brackets where if you lost round 1 you were paired with a winner from round 1 in order to help decrease the field quicker.   Under that system, after placing high in 56 man cadet bracket the year prior, my first year of juniors I drew the previous years ISWA junior state champ and followed that up with the IHSAA 3rd place finisher.  Needless to say that was a very quick weekend for me.  

And this is why vertical pairing was terrible.  Because nobody understood it.  First round losers DID NOT get paired with first round winners.  There's a very structured criteria for pairing who wrestles whom next, and it has nothing to do with previous round results.  

Nick Hull (Lawrence Central) & Scott Hines (Lawrence North) '95 or '96

I'd rather give my money to Flo instead of IHSAA 

7 hours ago, mikemorgan said:

We are probably never going to win the battle for full wrestle backs.  However, I remember in 2013 they let us do wrestlebacks at Semistate to determine the alternate.  Instead of being an alternate, what if we pushed to add the fifth place finisher wrestles a 4th placer in the first round pigtail.  Winner getting the 1 seed in a traditional format.

 

it would accomplish getting another correct guy to state and add intrigue with the winner of 4/5 having a win leading into their match with the 1.  And it wouldn’t add a lot of time, especially since it seems like the two session thing is sticking around.

 

 

If time is an issue for the IHSAA at semistate, they could set it up like state used to be.  If the wrestler who beat you in the ticket round makes it to the finals, then you wrestle for 5th at the same time as 1st & 3rd.  It's not full wrestlebacks, but it is a solution to those death draws that the IHSAA would consider.

54 minutes ago, nkraus said:

I'd like to know which coaches for sure...because any coach I've talked to hasn't felt that way

I want 2 sessions on Friday...

Session 1 would be for pigtail matches to allow SS 5th & 6th placers to qualify

Session 2 would be our normal Friday round

Starting at 11 am would be plenty of time to do this.

22 minutes ago, FCFIGHTER170 said:

#8 SR #2NCSS 132 Brevan Thrine gets his 100th win in semis then Pins #10NCSS O'Shea Phillips in a minute for #101 and his 3rd sectional title.. Congrats studs, love ya!

This sets up a potential Regional Title finals with #6 Ranked 3x SQ STUD Elijah Anthony, who's coming off a 3rd place finish at IHOP knocking off Logan Frazier in the 3rd place match.

New Castle and Frankfort are in different regionals.