2023 Final X

[SIACfan]

Indiana has 4 wrestlers in Final X Freestyle.

 

Nick Lee 65 kg

Mason Parris 125 kg

Sarah Hildebrandt 50 kg

Kayla Miracle 62 kg

 

It would be cool to see all 4 make the US team. What is the most Indiana wrestlers on one world team?

Both Lee & Parris have extremely tough tasks in front of them. I kind of expect both Sarah & Kayla to get it done, but they are far from garanteed.

 

I don't follow Greco, so if Indiana has anyone there can someone post it.

 

[ReformedPoster]

Both Lee and Parris have their work cut out for them.

 

Nick has at least beaten Yianni in freestyle somewhat recently.  Detractors will say it was on the back side and that Yianni wasn't mentally ready, etc.  I do think Yianni is the definite favorite, but I'm confident Cael and co. have a game plan.  Nick needs to keep position and be fundamentally sound.  When he gets to his shots he needs to finish quickly.  He can't give up 4 point moves like he did against Bartlett and expect to beat Yianni.  I don't think Yianni will wilt under Lee's pressure like McKenna did in the second period a few weeks ago.  My heart says Lee, but my head says Yianni wins it two matches to 1.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Parris has an answer for Gable in neutral.  He's just so far ahead of the field in the US that for Parris to keep it under a tech will be a victory of sorts.  Not sure what the game plan will be.  Parris' strength and athleticism are negated by Gable's superior strength and athleticism.  And I think Gable has a huge technique advantage on their feet.  Parris has been able to keep in close before, but I've never felt that he was going to win.  Don't see it happening at Final X.  Gable wins in two straight without being threatened.

 

Don't know enough about the women's side to intelligently comment on Miracle and Hildebrandt, but I'll take them to win their respective weights

[SIACfan]

10 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

Both Lee and Parris have their work cut out for them.

 

Nick has at least beaten Yianni in freestyle somewhat recently.  Detractors will say it was on the back side and that Yianni wasn't mentally ready, etc.  I do think Yianni is the definite favorite, but I'm confident Cael and co. have a game plan.  Nick needs to keep position and be fundamentally sound.  When he gets to his shots he needs to finish quickly.  He can't give up 4 point moves like he did against Bartlett and expect to beat Yianni.  I don't think Yianni will wilt under Lee's pressure like McKenna did in the second period a few weeks ago.  My heart says Lee, but my head says Yianni wins it two matches to 1.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Parris has an answer for Gable in neutral.  He's just so far ahead of the field in the US that for Parris to keep it under a tech will be a victory of sorts.  Not sure what the game plan will be.  Parris' strength and athleticism are negated by Gable's superior strength and athleticism.  And I think Gable has a huge technique advantage on their feet.  Parris has been able to keep in close before, but I've never felt that he was going to win.  Don't see it happening at Final X.  Gable wins in two straight without being threatened.

 

Don't know enough about the women's side to intelligently comment on Miracle and Hildebrandt, but I'll take them to win their respective weights

 

I don't disagree but I do believe Nick has a chance. I think that Nick has clearly gotten better. McKenna used to be his nemesis - one hurdle overcome. Yiannni is just the next obstacle he needs to conquer. Won't be easy but nothing worth while is.

 

Mason does have a monumental task in front of him. The one thing I will say is that I don't believe Gable is merely far ahead of the US field but rather the world field. If it wasn't for Gable, Mason would have an excellent chance at a world medal.

[IU89]

Nick is beating Yianni.  Book it!!

[maligned]

On 5/22/2023 at 5:28 PM, ReformedPoster said:

Unfortunately, I don't think Parris has an answer for Gable in neutral.  He's just so far ahead of the field in the US that for Parris to keep it under a tech will be a victory of sorts.

As someone else suggested...on the feet, Gable is far ahead of anyone in the world. The only place he's been "exploited" slightly at the highest level is his par terre defense. But good luck getting him there, and, like with most Americans, getting exposures isn't a strength for Parris.

[SIACfan]

There is a nice breakdown of the world team trials final match between Mason & Gwiazdowski by Seth Ciasulli on youtube.

 

After his breakdown of the match, he discusses why Gable is simply on another level above both Mason & Gwiazdowski. He talks about how while both Mason & Gwiazdowski do lots of fakes, neither string them together leading to a true shot the way Gable does. I believe it is this uncanny athleticism that separates Gable. To be that big & strong and still have the athleticism to string multiple moves together against some of the best the world has to offer is what makes Gable so special.

[SWINfan]

I do think Nick has a chance, but he'll have to be at his best.  Duh!   My guess is Yianni finds a way, but am rooting to be wrong.

The crazy thing about Mason and his lack of success against Gable is the styles.  Against every one else, Mason is quick, explosive and very strong.  Against Steveson he looks slow and weak, like a completely different wrestler.  Credit to Gable for that.

On a slightly different topic....   How would Gable be looked upon right now if he took Silver at the Olympics rather than Gold.  There is a very real argument to be made that he should not have won and the referee erred in that match.  Freestyle doesn't allow for you to just let a guy up and give up par terre position. I'm not trying to undo history, but I think it's fair to wonder "what if".  Would he have come back to wrestle at the next Worlds?  Would that have changed his college decision?  I certainly don't know the answers if there even are any...

[ReformedPoster]

Lee beats yianni in Match 1 7-6. I thought Nick looked really good. Going to be a tight one in match 2 for sure

[Ahap88]

Nick Lee 65kg World Team member!

[SWINfan]

For those that don't follow women's wrestling that much, Sarah Hildebrandt has made 5 Final X appearances and has yet to give up a single point!  She posted wins of 8-0 and 11-0 today to earn yet another World Team spot.

Kayla Miracle also swept her 2 matches, 6-1 and 10-3 and earned another WT spot.  

Mason Parris looked much better in his first match against Gable S. but couldn't break through, losing 6-2.  He wasn't overwhelmed, but there was really never a time you felt like Steveson was in peril. His 2nd shot is coming up. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by SWINfan

[1prouddad]

3 hours ago, SWINfan said:

For those that don't follow women's wrestling that much, Sarah Hildebrandt has made 5 Final X appearances and has yet to give up a single point!  She posted wins of 8-0 and 11-0 today to earn yet another World Team spot.

Kayla Miracle also swept her 2 matches, 6-1 and 10-3 and earned another WT spot.  

Mason Parris looked much better in his first match against Gable S. but couldn't break through, losing 6-2.  He wasn't overwhelmed, but there was really never a time you felt like Steveson was in peril. His 2nd shot is coming up. 

Gable is a different level. 

Mason is solid but, GS is far above him at this point. 

[SIACfan]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:31 PM, SWINfan said:

I do think Nick has a chance, but he'll have to be at his best.  Duh!   My guess is Yianni finds a way, but am rooting to be wrong.
 

 

I have to admit that I too was doubtful.

 

Luckily, we were both wrong.

 

Just wish that Mason could find the answer for Steveson, but Gable is simply one of the most special wrestlers on the planet at the moment. It would be a complete shame if Gable would have continued to waste his talents on the WWE. So I am glad that is not the case.

[Ahawkeye]

I could not find the match on my flo account. Please help me out here, I thought the competition was to be the best 2 out of 3 matches? I will look after 24 hrs maybe I'll find it then?

[IU89]

1 hour ago, Ahawkeye said:

I could not find the match on my flo account. Please help me out here, I thought the competition was to be the best 2 out of 3 matches? I will look after 24 hrs maybe I'll find it then?

It was Nick beat him twice. On your Flo account, go to replays, it’s there. 
 

[Ahawkeye]

Ok one more question, the Olympics will be next year, I would assume Nick will probably have to defend his spot next year to be the Olympic representative?

[maligned]

42 minutes ago, Ahawkeye said:

Ok one more question, the Olympics will be next year, I would assume Nick will probably have to defend his spot next year to be the Olympic representative?

Similar process to this year. But Nick gets an automatic spot at Final X if he medals this year at Worlds (instead of Yianni getting that advantage the way he did this year from his 2022 silver medal).

 

The other major point of interest is that Top 5 at any given weight at Worlds this year qualifies the US for one of the coveted 16 Olympic spots for that weight next year. Especially at the ultra-deep 65kg weight where we only got a spot in 2016 because of someone else's failed drug test and didnt qualify in 2021, there's some pressure for Nick to get the US a result this fall and to avoid tricky olympic qualifier tournaments.

[Ahawkeye]

Wow that is some major pressure! Nick is definitely rolling right now, hopefully he stays healthy and continues to win!

[SIACfan]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:15 AM, maligned said:

Similar process to this year. But Nick gets an automatic spot at Final X if he medals this year at Worlds (instead of Yianni getting that advantage the way he did this year from his 2022 silver medal).

 

The other major point of interest is that Top 5 at any given weight at Worlds this year qualifies the US for one of the coveted 16 Olympic spots for that weight next year. Especially at the ultra-deep 65kg weight where we only got a spot in 2016 because of someone else's failed drug test and didnt qualify in 2021, there's some pressure for Nick to get the US a result this fall and to avoid tricky olympic qualifier tournaments.

 

Also, there are less weight classes.

 

So the questions begs, what weight do Retherford & Vito compete at?

 

Not to mention any other wrestler at 61kg &/or 70kg. Do the 61kg wrestlers try to go 57 or 65, and do the 70kg wrestlers try 65 or 74?

 

Clearly, the Olympic team will be even harder to make. Thus Nick securing his spot in Final-X by medaling this year will be big.

Edited June 16, 2023 by SIACfan

[maligned]

2 hours ago, SIACfan said:

 

So the questions begs, what weight do Retherford & Vito competete at?

 

Clearly, the Olympic team will be even harder to make. Thus Nick securing his spot in Final-X by medaling this year will be big.

Good point that getting a bye to Final X matters even more.

 

Retherford and probably a couple other key 70kg guys will suck down.

 

If they follow past protocol too, they'd hand a 70kg medal-winning Retherford a bye into the challenge tournament semi's at 65kg. Lee not medaling this year could put him not only in the challenge tourney pool--but needing an extra high-level win to reach the finals.

[IU89]

6 hours ago, maligned said:

Good point that getting a bye to Final X matters even more.

 

Retherford and probably a couple other key 70kg guys will suck down.

 

If they follow past protocol too, they'd hand a 70kg medal-winning Retherford a bye into the challenge tournament semi's at 65kg. Lee not medaling this year could put him not only in the challenge tourney pool--but needing an extra high-level win to reach the finals.

He’s medaling at Worlds this year.  Book it!

[wrestlenewbie]

19 hours ago, SIACfan said:

 

Also, there are less weight classes.

 

So the questions begs, what weight do Retherford & Vito compete at?

 

Not to mention any other wrestler at 61kg &/or 70kg. Do the 61kg wrestlers try to go 57 or 65, and do the 70kg wrestlers try 65 or 74?

 

Clearly, the Olympic team will be even harder to make. Thus Nick securing his spot in Final-X by medaling this year will be big.

 

For Olympic Trials they do this all on two days, unlike Final X where there are weeks between the challenge tournament and the final.

 

This makes a bye to the final an even bigger advantage as you are wrestling someone who is more beat up and has had to make weight two days in a row.

[ReformedPoster]

On 6/16/2023 at 12:58 PM, SIACfan said:

 

Also, there are less weight classes.

 

So the questions begs, what weight do Retherford & Vito compete at?

 

Not to mention any other wrestler at 61kg &/or 70kg. Do the 61kg wrestlers try to go 57 or 65, and do the 70kg wrestlers try 65 or 74?

 

Clearly, the Olympic team will be even harder to make. Thus Nick securing his spot in Final-X by medaling this year will be big.

I think the majority of 70 kg, it not all, will drop to 65 kg.  Nobody wants to go through Nolf and then a fresh Dake to make the team.  

 

Same for the 61 kg guys.  They don't want to deal with Nick, Yianni, Zain and the others.  They will cut to 57 where there isn't clear favorite.  The big question is how will guys like Vito, Fix, DeSanto do with that weight cut.  Vito looks like a completely different wrestler this year vs when he was at 125/57 kg.  The flo guys were saying the other day that the cut to 57 looks like it is catching up with Gilman.  Throw in a healthy (hopefully) Spencer Lee and 57 kg is a complete toss up.

[SIACfan]

12 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

I think the majority of 70 kg, it not all, will drop to 65 kg.  Nobody wants to go through Nolf and then a fresh Dake to make the team.  

 

Same for the 61 kg guys.  They don't want to deal with Nick, Yianni, Zain and the others.  They will cut to 57 where there isn't clear favorite.  The big question is how will guys like Vito, Fix, DeSanto do with that weight cut.  Vito looks like a completely different wrestler this year vs when he was at 125/57 kg.  The flo guys were saying the other day that the cut to 57 looks like it is catching up with Gilman.  Throw in a healthy (hopefully) Spencer Lee and 57 kg is a complete toss up.

 

This response demonstrates how incredibly difficult it will be to make the Olympic team.

 

For discussion purposes, 5 kg is equal to 11 lbs. How many of these wrestlers can successfully cut that kind of weight & still expect to perform at the level needed to compete with these world class wrestlers? Vito is the perfect example. He looks much better at 61 kg/133 lbs than he did at 57 kg/125 lbs a year ago.

 

But as you point out, going up isn't any better of an option.

[ReformedPoster]

it is incredibly difficult to have to go through the challenge tournament and then jump to Final X the next day for the Olympic berth.  It is vitally important for Nick Lee to grab a medal this year so he doesn't have to run the gauntlet.  He can sit and wait while everybody else beats each other up

[Ahawkeye]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:21 AM, ReformedPoster said:

I think the majority of 70 kg, it not all, will drop to 65 kg.  Nobody wants to go through Nolf and then a fresh Dake to make the team.  

 

Same for the 61 kg guys.  They don't want to deal with Nick, Yianni, Zain and the others.  They will cut to 57 where there isn't clear favorite.  The big question is how will guys like Vito, Fix, DeSanto do with that weight cut.  Vito looks like a completely different wrestler this year vs when he was at 125/57 kg.  The flo guys were saying the other day that the cut to 57 looks like it is catching up with Gilman.  Throw in a healthy (hopefully) Spencer Lee and 57 kg is a complete toss up.

Can you imagine DeSanto cutting weight? He already seems crabby. Imagine dealing with him on a day to day basis and then not feed him! Yikes!