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Congratulations forum for making it through the season withoug a major class post on class wrestling

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8 minutes ago, jetwrestling said:

This was the very point I was trying to make earlier and was jumped on for it. The size of school is irrelevant. The biggest factor is year round wrestling that is being done. I posted earlier that AC has several athletes that work their tails off year round, the difference is that it is in 2-3 sports. The kids that wrestle only are separating themselves. This is a fact and you see it in the rise of the communities that are doing it. 

This is the biggest factor to their success. A small school kid can do it also, but at the expense of the other sports that they are being recruited to play by their peers and the other head coaches.  If we want all our programs to be successful, AC has to share athletes between their sports as there are truly only a set number to choose from in a school of 375 total HS students.

First of all, I hope you didn't interpret my comments as "jumping on" you...I truly admire and appreciate what small school coaches do in all sports and I accept all the challenges you face.  It's awesome what you're able to get done!  I am just saying that not all "big school" kids are single sport athletes that specialize.  

Nathan Walton was 3X All-Conference in Football.  Gunnar Larson from Avon was a stud on the football field.  Lawson Aiken was All-State this year in football, and Dorian Keys has a good chance to be next year (he was all conference).  Cody Edmonds was a starting DE and the 195 lb Semi-state wrestler.  Even more than that what I find amazing about Coach Snyder is he doesnt WANT to see his kids that are in other sports during their other seasons...and they are major contributors to his team.  That takes some discipline on a coaching level.  Now in the offseason and the summer...you need to be committed to whatever it is youre doing and it isn't easy but there is good coordination among all sports.  If it wasn't for a knee injury, Brownsburg's Division 1 RB would be putting on a singlet and contributing. 

Good example, all those wrestlers that are football players go compete in the Disney Duals.  That takes some discipline for the football staff to give up a week in the summer to have almost your entire defensive line gone when every day in the summer is valuable. 

So I truly do understand the challenge and do not mean to diminish it...all I'm trying to say is that it's not impossible to overcome but it takes cooperation and support from the AD on down to each individual coach.  That's obviously easier said than done, I realize.

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Year round wrestling training is the difference. Period. 

Hard work pays off and those kids that invest in wrestling only are reaping the rewards. 

Others that invest their hard work in other sports have to play catch up. 

Enrollment does not matter. The focus of the kids efforts is what does. 

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14 minutes ago, jetwrestling said:

Like I said size of school does not matter, it is the other opportunities that does. Whether that opportunity is being able to play football and baseball as well or the local wrestling training academy.

Absolutely.... 

Many of the challenges kids have to being great in wrestling happen to coincide with small schools but big schools aren't necessarily immune to challenges.  They are just different challenges.

Ben Davis, Pike and Fishers (3 of the biggest HS in the State) had 3 SQ combined.  Oak Hill, Western, Wawasee, Jimtown all had 3 each.  

All that being said school size is probably the best way to divide schools into classes.  I would just be a bigger supporter of an "all-in" team state tournament series vs changing the individual tournament.

Edited by Rookies03

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9 minutes ago, Kookie953 said:

Even more than that what I find amazing about Coach Snyder is he doesnt WANT to see his kids that are in other sports during their other seasons...and they are major contributors to his team.  That takes some discipline on a coaching level.  Now in the offseason and the summer...you need to be committed to whatever it is youre doing and it isn't easy but there is good coordination among all sports.  If it wasn't for a knee injury, Brownsburg's Division 1 RB would be putting on a singlet and contributing. 

Good example, all those wrestlers that are football players go compete in the Disney Duals.  That takes some discipline for the football staff to give up a week in the summer to have almost your entire defensive line gone when every day in the summer is valuable. 

 

When coaches can see how cross training can help their athletes then everyone wins.  A week at Disney Duals wont take away from summer football and probably helps make them better football players.  All it takes is a little communication and working together for a kids to be successful as a multi-sport athlete.  Not gonna say it is easy but coaches working together is a big deal.

And Kudos for Coach Snyder and all the other coaches that promote being a multisport athlete!

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4 minutes ago, Kookie953 said:

First of all, I hope you didn't interpret my comments as "jumping on" you...I truly admire and appreciate what small school coaches do in all sports and I accept all the challenges you face.  It's awesome what you're able to get done!  I am just saying that not all "big school" kids are single sport athletes that specialize.  

Nathan Walton was 3X All-Conference in Football.  Gunnar Larson from Avon was a stud on the football field.  Lawson Aiken was All-State this year in football, and Dorian Keys has a good chance to be next year (he was all conference).  Cody Edmonds was a starting DE and the 195 lb Semi-state wrestler.  Even more than that what I find amazing about Coach Snyder is he doesnt WANT to see his kids that are in other sports during their other seasons...and they are major contributors to his team.  That takes some discipline on a coaching level.  Now in the offseason and the summer...you need to be committed to whatever it is youre doing and it isn't easy but there is good coordination among all sports.  If it wasn't for a knee injury, Brownsburg's Division 1 RB would be putting on a singlet and contributing. 

Good example, all those wrestlers that are football players go compete in the Disney Duals.  That takes some discipline for the football staff to give up a week in the summer to have almost your entire defensive line gone when every day in the summer is valuable. 

So I truly do understand the challenge and do not mean to diminish it...all I'm trying to say is that it's not impossible to overcome but it takes cooperation and support from the AD on down to each individual coach.  That's obviously easier said than done, I realize.

I agree and appreciate the fact that 6A schools have multiple sport athletes as well and are successful at that. 

My point is that is is much more common in smaller school settings. 

My varsity line up: 113, 120, 138- cross country. 126, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220- football. 132 was football until this year. 106 first year kid that was literally the only one I could find to make weight in the school. 

So if you can tell me that Brownsburg had 11-12 varsity wrestling starters that played a fall sport, then I will stop trying to post about the differences we face. They get much better year round buy in and that is the advantage. 

I give Snyder props for what he has done. Brownsburg came to our duals for a couple years prior to his head coaching. We actually won the two duals we had with them. Then last year we faced them at the Bellmont main event and took a whooping. He has changed their culture and elevated that program. 

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4 minutes ago, Rookies03 said:

When coaches can see how cross training can help their athletes then everyone wins.  A week at Disney Duals wont take away from summer football and probably helps make them better football players.  All it takes is a little communication and working together for a kids to be successful as a multi-sport athlete.  Not gonna say it is easy but coaches working together is a big deal.

And Kudos for Coach Snyder and all the other coaches that promote being a multisport athlete!

Pretty sure Coach Snyder is also a proponent of class wrestling, so excellent example.

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And for the record, I am not a proponent of classing the individual tournament. I wish they would increase to 24 kids in the state bracket. 

Ticket round winners place top 4 at semi state. 

Ticket round loser wrestle to 5/6. This eliminates the death draw issue and basically assures the top kids qualify. 

Take 6 to state. 

Add 1 round Friday for 4 vs 5 and 3 vs 6. Semi state champs and runner ups have a bye. Somehow random draw in the first round like they do now. 

Keep the rest of the tournament series the same. 

I am a huge proponent of Class Duals. 

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Flowrestling says, why so quiet on this class debate?

They posted an article on Pro today analyzing the class set ups for each state. They draw no conclusions on what the "right" number of classes are for each state, but they took the time to do some math.

Making no claims about the quality of those participants, they list the easiest and the hardest states in which to win a wrestling state championship.

Participation / (number of classes x 14) = average number of participants per weight class.

Hardest:

  1. California - 1710 participants per weight class (1 class)
  2. New Jersey - 648 (2)
  3. New England region - 622 (1, I guess)
  4. Indiana - 511 (1)
  5. New York - 411 (they don't say, I assume 1)
  6. Texas - 405 (2)
  7. Pennsylvania - 349 (2)

Easiest:

  1. Vermont - 12 (1)
  2. DC - 15 (1)
  3. New Hampshire - 15 (3)
  4. Arkansas - 20 (3)
  5. Maine - 25 (2)
  6. Wyoming - 27 (3)
  7. North Dakota - 32 (2)
  8. Montana - 33 (3)
  9. New Mexico - 36 (3)
  10. Louisiana - 41 (3)
  11. Connecticut - 44 (4)
  12. South Dakota - 48 (2)

I made the easiest list a bit longer because they include both the individual states in New England and New England as a region (since their state championships also roll up into a regional championship).

Expanding to 2 classes would move Indiana to 255.5 per weight and drop you from 4 to 9 (behind Ohio at 265 per weight).

Expanding to 3 classes would move Indiana to 170.3 per weight and drop you from 4 to 11 (behind Minnesota at 194 per weight).

So, at least you are no California. Or, if you are envious of California, you need to consolidate to 4 weight classes to out tough them.

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