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Kookie953

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Everything posted by Kookie953

  1. The only local tournament I've seen do this is the Dan Nelson tournament that Carmel hosts. SO much better of a process to not have predetermined weight classes.
  2. This topic is near and dear to me as I'm relatively new to the sport, have now been in two different states, and I have a kid that wants to be great but is by no means there yet...but is mature enough and old enough when he started to know the process (although he still does get down on himself). But damn if so many don't take it too seriously, and others not seriously enough. And they go together...especially when it comes to growing the sport. First and foremost, if you are running a tournament...AT ALL COSTS START THE DAMN TOURNAMENT ON TIME!! As we all know, there's nothing more frustrating than travelling 1-2 hours at the butt-crack of dawn to get to a weigh-in at 7:30 for a "Wrestling will start at 9am SHARP" to which the wrestling actually starts about 10:15 if you're lucky. Which leads me to my next point, which is the whole business of weight management and making weight and cutting. Why are their weight classes for individual tournaments at the elementary level? Except for maybe truly "elite" tournaments like state? Group kids into 8 man brackets or round robin by experience and let them get mat time. I love taking my kid to go wrestle good competition, but like Mr. Brewer said it's a little like "man, what am I doing?" when you make this effort for your kid to lose 3-1 to the eventual champ in the opening round then run into another hammer that finishes 2nd or 3rd the next round. Yes, it was good he was "close" to the guys that finished strong...but also a bit frustrating to make that much effort into 2 matches for a tournament that started way late. And it's not about my kid "winning" bur rather just making it worth it. I'm the first to tell my son "If you don't like losing, get your ass in the gym and work harder". But I also would like to see a value in driving all over and getting my son more mat time (which is why we all love duals). I can see how some parents that aren't so into it can say "to hell with this" and disencourage their kid to continue with the sport. I just think the target customer needs to be identified and someone needs to take the lead on making the sport more enjoyable all the way around to everyone, not just the die-hards. Very interesting convo!
  3. Clearly the Brewer kid must have a really smart mom. Only thing questionable is her decision on who to marry. 😀
  4. That's an excellent point (and I'm a football coach). We recently just moved down here to Texas, where wrestling and wrestling culture is not as prevalent...obviously football is. You wouldn't believe how many wrestling people I've talked to where football coaches are the biggest obstacle to getting kids to wrestle, despite the transference. But it's mainly due to the issue of cutting and the thought of the football coaches is their kids are now not getting bigger, stronger, and faster in the winter. Yes, I'm doing my part to try to change that thinking too...but when your 175 lb running back or linebacker is all the sudden wrestling 160 then there is some merit to the argument.
  5. Mat-side weigh ins. You said I'm czar for the day. Haha. As a process guy in my "professional" life, the whole idiocy of weigh-ins days or hours before actually wrestling defeats the purpose. It would literally take a few seconds per match. You miss weight, it's a forfeit. All the sudden you have eliminated your issue of kids cutting too much and people will wrestle their true weight.
  6. First of all, I hope you didn't interpret my comments as "jumping on" you...I truly admire and appreciate what small school coaches do in all sports and I accept all the challenges you face. It's awesome what you're able to get done! I am just saying that not all "big school" kids are single sport athletes that specialize. Nathan Walton was 3X All-Conference in Football. Gunnar Larson from Avon was a stud on the football field. Lawson Aiken was All-State this year in football, and Dorian Keys has a good chance to be next year (he was all conference). Cody Edmonds was a starting DE and the 195 lb Semi-state wrestler. Even more than that what I find amazing about Coach Snyder is he doesnt WANT to see his kids that are in other sports during their other seasons...and they are major contributors to his team. That takes some discipline on a coaching level. Now in the offseason and the summer...you need to be committed to whatever it is youre doing and it isn't easy but there is good coordination among all sports. If it wasn't for a knee injury, Brownsburg's Division 1 RB would be putting on a singlet and contributing. Good example, all those wrestlers that are football players go compete in the Disney Duals. That takes some discipline for the football staff to give up a week in the summer to have almost your entire defensive line gone when every day in the summer is valuable. So I truly do understand the challenge and do not mean to diminish it...all I'm trying to say is that it's not impossible to overcome but it takes cooperation and support from the AD on down to each individual coach. That's obviously easier said than done, I realize.
  7. No, because there are no absolutes. There's no limit to an INDIVIDUAL doing well. I have never typed that a team dual state championship should not be classed...and honestly how the IHSAA crowns a "team" champion is stupid but that's another post. There's too many outliers to any point about classing the individual tournament. There are plenty of small school kids that do just fine to show that class of the individual isn't the end all to success, or lack thereof. My point was to show that great wresters gravitate to the larger schools, and simple statistics show that a varsity wrestler at a large school is really good. Logan Boe somehow is a 2X state placer at Danville...and again this year at Plainfield. Nobody is saying that larger schools have some advantages, but those advantages don't outweigh changing the current individual tournament setup and further diluting the product.
  8. And to add to my above post...if you truly are "elite" and have been and as a parent you want you child to be successful, then many times that's why those families migrate to a major metro area or move in to a school system with a great wrestling program. So success breeds success within this topic that nobody wants to acknowledge. Just by the nature of the size of the program, if you're wrestling varsity for Avon, Brownsburg, Cathedral, Perry Meridian, Warren...you have to be pretty damn good just to make one of those 14 spots. And another kid that comes to mind is Gavinn Alstott. His family sacrifices and gets him to the best gyms hours away because the kid wants to work and get better. So they go to extraordinary circumstances to make that happen. He's a fun kid to watch have success. Or is Floyd Central too big?
  9. Does Monrovia count? Are they small enough? Ben Dalton has done OK, and in a region with the heavyweights. I don't know the kid at all besides seeing him around and seeing the work he puts in...but his wrestling career has been OK last time I checked. He's just one that came to mind. And obviously Asa's talent has something to do with his 3X State Champ success.
  10. Little known fact, but Estell Ritter was held back solely for wrestling. Also for farming because it was a tough crop back in 1924, but none the less his parents seemed to be concerned with his wrestling career.
  11. I appreciate your response, but the big schools have lots of dual-sport kids as well. Obviously the smaller weights don't necessarily play football at the 6A level, but the mid to upper weights sure do and seem to do OK sharing athletes. I can only speak for specifics for Brownsburg, but there are lots of shared kids and no issues there. It's a testament to the coaches of each sport there that they work together.
  12. I would consider it a positive but I would not consider it the cause without further data.
  13. I just simply don't think it will matter...but it will make the Indiana tournament less meaningful. It's the same arguments as class basketball, except basketball is actually a team sport. That kid at the small school that "has to" go do other sports is not gonna all the sudden say "Yup, I'm going to bust my ass at wrestling and maybe have another dude's junk in my face while he cranks on my shoulder because I now have a chance for a 1A SQ. Yay, wrestling!" I just can't make that leap. Wrestling is not track or tennis or golf. You either can do it or you can't mentally. So it doesn't matter...so don't mess with the coolest high school event there is for participants AND fans.
  14. We'll never get agreement on the topicso I'll just leave you with this. There is no evidence that a class individual state tournament will do anything for participation numbers at a small school. It's not a magic bullet. You think it might be. I disagree, but respect your opinion. I just do not want to mess with the event that led to me even being on this board, because it's the event that ignited the fire in my kid to go give the sport a try. And I actually would be interested in forfeits in the Missouri 1A state championships. The other states you mention are better wrestling states from an "enthusiasm" standpoint.
  15. Cmon Joe...correlation does not equal causation. Wrestling is sold out in Ohio because it's Ohio and wrestling is big there. It's also a much larger population than Indiana (as with the other surrounding states besides Kentucky). What do the forfeits look like at smaller schools in states with classes after they went to classed tournaments? Did they somehow start having kids beating the door down? And if you have the stats from a wrestling-heavy state that doesn't really count. Because for each Ohio I could give you Texas where I now live where EVERY team has a ton of forfeits because it's not popular here yet. Hell, the 6A program where we live doesn't even have the sport...although they are supposed to be starting it up soon. The other 6A program where my kid works out fields 9 out of 14 on a good day...and they are a national football powerhouse. And the only reason they get those kids is because the football program embraced wrestling and they have a coach that diligently works to get kids out. While I sincerely appreciate your passion for growing the sport and the troubles and toils of smaller schools, classing the individual tournament will not help that. Forfeits are not up because there is a single class tournament. The participants can't see that far ahead for it to make a difference when they are deciding to join the wrestling team or not. What would make sense is the IHSAA actually becoming a part of a true team (Duals) championship...and obviously classing that is the only way in which it's fair. Being able to actually be part of a team and contribute to a true team state championship is something that might help. I always appreciate the discussion, but the individual tournament is special. I always LOVE seeing the kids from smaller schools even make it to The Bank. That should be celebrated.
  16. And get a watered down medal from a tournament nobody attended. Leave it alone. It's the best high school event in the nation. If you're worried about your kid getting recruited, get to the national tournaments and do some marketing with where you want to go. There's not a whole lot of full-ride wrestling money anyway. Side note Joe...just IMHO a chance to "medal" is not going to be the deciding factor of whether a kid wants to wrestle or not. You either like this sport or you don't, and no amount of hardware is going to change a kid's mind. So forfeits won't go down simply because the tournament is classed. The only thing that goes down is the excitement in mid-Feb.
  17. Kudos to you, sir...and it's not mystery on why Silas is as successful as he is. Your response here is incredibly refreshing! Good luck to you and your fam wherever that path leads!
  18. Happy Birthday! Tell your boss Mr. Espich to give you the day off! I've got incriminating pictures if you need them.
  19. Interesting tidbit I learned about this subject from my daughter. We were watching the Finals on Fox Sports Indiana, and the 120 lbs group comes up. And my daughter, who is a freshman says "Oh cool! There's Kysen! He was in my Spanish class. Dad did you know that he and I have the same exact birthday?" I reply "Oh cool, the same date?" And she responds "No, dad...the exact same day. Like the same year. Not the same hospital though." So we had a choice when my daughter was entering kindergarten to either have her be one of the youngest or one of the oldest in her class, and we choose the latter. Obviously, since Kysen is a sophomore placer, he was in the former group and could "naturally" be a freshman right now like my daughter. But he's a 2X state placer, which is commendable due to the whole "Greyshirt / Redshirt" idea. The funny thing was my son, who is a wrestler in 7th grade, immediately piped in with "Well, clearly Kysen's parents didn't want him to be any good in wrestling."
  20. Anybody that thinks it was intentional needs their head examined. It's called hard wrestling. It's stupid to insinuate otherwise.
  21. I second this. Cheaney is going to make some noise. A lot of noise. It wasn't fun at the time, but my 7th grade son got the "pleasure" of having his 3 man workout group often be him (a beginner), Logan Miller, and Cheaney. Obviously, he couldn't ask for better partners and he got WAY better...but got way better by having his face smashed into the mat repeatedly. LOL. It was not fun then but was pretty cool for him now watching Logan do his thing this year, and Cheaney will do the same next year.
  22. Sorry if posted elsewhere, but has anyone done the math of what the team scores would have been with previous year's rules?
  23. Dorian is freaky athletic. So strong and such great hips and feet...which I know well from football. So I knew he'd do good. In fact, I thought he would win a state championship...NEXT year. Prior to the season I thought he might surprise and be able to advance to the semistate based on his strength and athleticism. Total surprise this year with his very limited experience! Awesome job by him, the coaches, and his teammates!
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