Fabio Jr. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Trying to be at least....gimme time ill do something stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 We should discuss this on the hangout with the season being out i think it would be great way to discuss these hot button issues and try to get multiple viewpoints out there How many people watch these vs. read posts on the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I bet there are more people on here as the hangouts are relatively new but I think it would be a better format for debate and the numbers would rise. Could have a moderator who could get tweeted questions Live. Could be cool and informative. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllWrestleNoPlay Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I watch the hangouts and I definitely think it'd be worth a shot to debate this during one. If you don't pay attention to the hangouts, you're missing out first of all,but also you just wouldn't get to see the debate which is your own choice. For those of us that do watch the hangouts I think it'd be beneficial. We could also take what we got from it back here to the messageboards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How many people watch these vs. read posts on the forum? The hangouts are getting between 500 and 800 views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The hangouts are getting between 500 and 800 views. So what class would the hangouts be considered, just wanted to stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I say absolutely not! Class system ruined Basketball in our state. We had something special for Decades, and now it's a farce. And now Football, really used to be 3 Classes, we not have 6. Whoopdeda, 6A champs we are the champs best out of 32 teams......ugh. My suggestion for wrestling, build better stronger club systems in the surrounding rural areas the best that you possibly can, or if your boy is a special wrestler, and attending a small 1A school with a non-competitive room, then make sure you drive or get him to a top notch club with a better room that is within a parents striking distance. This whole country is going to hell in a hand basket with everything has to be fair and equal. Life is not fair, get used to it, sorry to say. The numbers at this years final posted by Y2 regarding 1A schools is staggering, I agree, but I still do not agree in changing the format for whole state. In closing, if a coach has such a problem with participation at a 1A school, it is up to the coach/AD and his Staff to make it work or sorry to say, drop the sport completely. Everyone of these kids that one a state title this year worked their asses off, above and beyond normal practices, and their parents sacrificed a great deal for them as well. So maybe something needs to change at the smaller school, then classing the greatest HS sport in the Country!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So getting 12 state qualifiers for 105 teams is now what you would call "competing pretty well." Are you also saying that in states with class wrestling kids don't have to "work hard" to become a state qualifier? Lets be fair on how you are basing your numbers. I personally when thru the IHSAA School directory. There are 89 Schools that DO NOT EVEN HAS High School Wrestling as a Sport, with enrollments from 40-500 kids, which I would believe qualify as your 1A Schools, so you take those schools out of the mix, when basing this criteria against the bigger schools, then it is a valid discussion. So in essence now you are talking about 12 state qualifiers for 25-30 schools, pretty good numbers don't yah think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Lets be fair on how you are basing your numbers. I personally when thru the IHSAA School directory. There are 89 Schools that DO NOT EVEN HAS High School Wrestling as a Sport, with enrollments from 40-500 kids, which I would believe qualify as your 1A Schools, so you take those schools out of the mix, when basing this criteria against the bigger schools, then it is a valid discussion. So in essence now you are talking about 12 state qualifiers for 25-30 schools, pretty good numbers don't yah think? Let's be clear, you are completely WRONG. There are approximately 400 schools within the IHSAA. Only 315 have wrestling, thus if you were to break it down into 3 classes it would be an even split of 105 schools in each class. NONE of the schools without a wrestling program are included in the statistic of 12 state qualifiers for 1A schools. In fact you don't even realize that almost half the schools in Indiana have an enrollment of less than 500 students. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Lets be fair on how you are basing your numbers. I personally when thru the IHSAA School directory. There are 89 Schools that DO NOT EVEN HAS High School Wrestling as a Sport, with enrollments from 40-500 kids, which I would believe qualify as your 1A Schools, so you take those schools out of the mix, when basing this criteria against the bigger schools, then it is a valid discussion. So in essence now you are talking about 12 state qualifiers for 25-30 schools, pretty good numbers don't yah think? I believe there are 312 schools that have wrestling and the bottom third or 105 schools are considered 3A. So thats 12 state qualifiers out of 105 schools (11.5%). I think you bring a good fact that there are 89 schools that do not have wrestling. Maybe one reason they don't dare to take on the venture is due to the overwhelming task of competing against the big schools. So nobody is working hard on wrestling at those schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I believe there are 312 schools that have wrestling and the bottom third or 105 schools are considered 3A. So thats 12 state qualifiers out of 105 schools (11.5%). I think you bring a good fact that there are 89 schools that do not have wrestling. Maybe one reason they don't dare to take on the venture is due to the overwhelming task of competing against the big schools. So nobody is working hard on wrestling at those schools. You're 11.5% is too high. Even if we use the average varsity wrestler per school, 9, we get 945 wrestlers in 1A. That equals 1.2% of the varsity wrestlers in 1A qualify for the state tournament. Meanwhile in 3A land with 1301 varsity wrestlers and 152 qualifying for state you get a whooping 11.6% of the varsity wrestlers in 3A going to state. At the 2A level there are 1160 wrestlers with 60 qualifying for state or 5.2%. This is from maligned's post http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,30104.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Let's be clear, you are completely WRONG. There are approximately 400 schools within the IHSAA. Only 315 have wrestling, thus if you were to break it down into 3 classes it would be an even split of 105 schools in each class. NONE of the schools without a wrestling program are included in the statistic of 12 state qualifiers for 1A schools. In fact you don't even realize that almost half the schools in Indiana have an enrollment of less than 500 students. Nice try though. Thank Joe for Clarifying my inaccurate statement, and with the facts you have presented you have definitely made me a believer. Let's also make sure that we give all wrestlers that come out for the sport a participation ribbon, and we can have the bigger school wrestler with an arm tied behind their backs, and spot them a 6 point lead in the first period. That should about do it, let's make everything such a level playing field that the idea of an underdog, or overachiever does not exist anymore. The perfect UTOPIA.....I like that. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You're 11.5% is too high. Even if we use the average varsity wrestler per school, 9, we get 945 wrestlers in 1A. That equals 1.2% of the varsity wrestlers in 1A qualify for the state tournament. Meanwhile in 3A land with 1301 varsity wrestlers and 152 qualifying for state you get a whooping 11.6% of the varsity wrestlers in 3A going to state. At the 2A level there are 1160 wrestlers with 60 qualifying for state or 5.2%. This is from maligned's post http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,30104.0.html I guess my 11.5% is that on avg only 11.5% schools qualify a wrester (12/105). You're 1.2% is probably a better number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thank Joe for Clarifying my inaccurate statement, and with the facts you have presented you have definitely made me a believer. Let's also make sure that we give all wrestlers that come out for the sport a participation ribbon, and we can have the bigger school wrestler with an arm tied behind their backs, and spot them a 6 point lead in the first period. That should about do it, let's make everything such a level playing field that the idea of an underdog, or overachiever does not exist anymore. The perfect UTOPIA.....I like that. 8) It isn't a participation ribbon, it is about growing the sport and keeping it relevant at the small school level. 12 state qualifiers at the 1A level means in essence it will take 9 years for EVERY 1A school to have a state qualifier. I know there are quite a few schools that still have yet to have ONE state qualifier in the history of their school. How is that good for the growth of the sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do you think we could ban the argument of "participation ribbon" argument from those against class wrestling. And also ban "Let's just have one weight class" argument from those for class wrestling. What are some of the other tired arguments from both sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do you think we could ban the argument of "participation ribbon" argument from those against class wrestling. And also ban "Let's just have one weight class" argument from those for class wrestling. What are some of the other tired arguments from both sides? Its like all debates, there is always fringe lunatics (see what I did there) that only live on the absolute extremes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Its like all debates, there is always fringe lunatics (see what I did there) that only live on the absolute extremes God I love that song! One of the Best Wrestling songs, Like EVER! I am lunatic, hear me roar! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do you think we could ban the argument of "participation ribbon" argument from those against class wrestling. And also ban "Let's just have one weight class" argument from those for class wrestling. What are some of the other tired arguments from both sides? Here are a few Just work harder Lets have 84 classes(or whatever number past 3 you want) But we couldn't turn the lights off at state What fun would it be without those ones though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do you think we could ban the argument of "participation ribbon" argument from those against class wrestling. And also ban "Let's just have one weight class" argument from those for class wrestling. What are some of the other tired arguments from both sides? How about: Why do we place 8 people and 16 qualify. It should be like the old days where only 4 guys qualify and only top 2 place at state. Or once you lose in sectionals, regionals or semi-state, you should be out of the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 OK, to take all sarcasm aside. I will ask the question. Have there been studies that have proven that adding Class wrestling grows the sport? I am very curious, because we ALL have opinions, and post them. As you know I am not for Class Wrestling. But if there are studies that prove it not only grows the sport, brings in a larger fan base, and revenue then I am more inclined to be opened minded, and others might be as well? There is a difference between Somebody on hear saying that well of course it will just look at the facts that more wrestlers, parents, friends and family would attend the state finals and other events leading up to that. That may be true, but what about the Casual fans with no horses in the race, are many going to be turned off by a watered down version of the State Finals? Serious questions above, no sarcasm intended this time? Would like to see a link with a study down if these is one comparing states before and after adopting class wrestling. Also, does anyone have actual statistics regarding class basketball in our state, because I would think that would be a very relevant comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You're 11.5% is too high. Even if we use the average varsity wrestler per school, 9, we get 945 wrestlers in 1A. That equals 1.2% of the varsity wrestlers in 1A qualify for the state tournament. Meanwhile in 3A land with 1301 varsity wrestlers and 152 qualifying for state you get a whooping 11.6% of the varsity wrestlers in 3A going to state. At the 2A level there are 1160 wrestlers with 60 qualifying for state or 5.2%. This is from maligned's post http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,30104.0.html sounds great at first until you realize that of that 11.6% for 3A, the lions share is from just a few schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I wonder, have the teams that have competed in team state the last few seasons in the 1A and 2A seen a incline, decline or stayed the same in the number of kids they are coaching? That might be a good indicator if class wrestling is starting to work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It isn't a participation ribbon, it is about growing the sport and keeping it relevant at the small school level. 12 state qualifiers at the 1A level means in essence it will take 9 years for EVERY 1A school to have a state qualifier. I know there are quite a few schools that still have yet to have ONE state qualifier in the history of their school. How is that good for the growth of the sport? my guess this also includes 3A schools...need to know the details oh...12 qualifiers out of 224 participants is 5.3%, thought it was important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 sounds great at first until you realize that of that 11.6% for 3A, the lions share is from just a few schools. This may be a case of that crazy "move in" situation where people happen to move into the same school at the same time. What percentage of 3A and 2A schools were represented...not the number of wrestlers but how many teams out of that 105 were represented at each level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 my thoughts have always been if a school is 10 times larger they have 10 times the chance of producing good wrestlers...that is part of it but some schools are more successful than others regardless of size. Why is this ? programs and coaching imo and most good coaches at small schools don't stay there long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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