bigmak Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 that aside, i dont think class wrestling is the way to go for high school...but i dont know what the answer is. something needs to change, but that diminishes the value of the championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB145 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Graduating class of 52 people... with that being said, I am for one state champ in each weight class. Not sure why people want to fix things that aren't broken. The state finals right now are fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Graduating class of 52 people... with that being said, I am for one state champ in each weight class. Not sure why people want to fix things that aren't broken. The state finals right now are fantastic. Maybe they see a chance for the sport to grow in an area where wrestling is struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB145 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Maybe they see a chance for the sport to grow in an area where wrestling is struggling. Is it struggling because being a champ is too hard? Or maybe from other reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Is it struggling because being a champ is too hard? Or maybe from other reasons? It's not about being the state champ, it is about getting kids deeper in the state series. The more kids that enjoy a little bit of success the better off a school will be. Even getting kids to the ticket round or being a state qualifier does wonders for a program that is trying to build something. Being at a 2A school and now a 6A school I have personally seen the differences and it is very telling that the sport could grow tremendously with two classes for the individual series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 It's not about being the state champ, it is about getting kids deeper in the state series. The more kids that enjoy a little bit of success the better off a school will be. Even getting kids to the ticket round or being a state qualifier does wonders for a program that is trying to build something. Being at a 2A school and now a 6A school I have personally seen the differences and it is very telling that the sport could grow tremendously with two classes for the individual series. The sport is not going to grow by adding another class thats crazy!! It starts at the elementary level and middle school these coaches need to get the families involved early and keep them going to tournaments that creates a bond between Families and the sport. It all starts with the youth then they tell friends family and so on, thats how to get the sport to grow not adding another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The sport is not going to grow by adding another class thats crazy!! It starts at the elementary level and middle school these coaches need to get the families involved early and keep them going to tournaments that creates a bond between Families and the sport. It all starts with the youth then they tell friends family and so on, thats how to get the sport to grow not adding another class. Why are the numbers up at team state the last two years???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Why don't we just say screw it, try a sample class system for a year or two, and if it doesn't work go back and if it seems to work keep it? Trial and error. May not work but hey at least we tried right? Then we would know for sure and end this never ending argument. I am for a 2 class system by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Why don't we just say screw it, try a sample class system for a year or two, and if it doesn't work go back and if it seems to work keep it? Trial and error. May not work but hey at least we tried right? Then we would know for sure and end this never ending argument. I am for a 2 class system by the way. I think it is a bad idea because the full effects of a class system will take years to see. Things like participation numbers won't skyrocket overnight. Class wrestling alone is not the magic fix, but a step in the right direction. It will still take coaches pounding the pavement for wrestlers. It will still take coaches promoting their programs to the football coaches. It will still take work for those small schools to get things going in the right direction. In the end we could see very positive advancements in 10-15 years and maybe as soon as 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbburn12 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I am not making any judgment one way or the other but this happened when I took my son to a wrestling clinic put on by a D-I coach. My son registered and maybe the coach liked how he looked. He asked him if he made it downstate. My son said he made it to semi state. The coach then t speak to him the entire clinic. Were we next door in Michigan with what four classes and he made it to state from a small Division IV school maybe he would have shown some interest. He surely may have lost interest quickly but by "qualifying for State " at least he may have noticed. That's just one example. I will say it is nice that the State Champ is the State Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Y2, I guess my point was trying the class system would be worth it. Worst case scenario sometime in the future they have to revert back to the classless system. I agree 100% that it's on coaching and a few other factors to build a program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I am not making any judgment one way or the other but this happened when I took my son to a wrestling clinic put on by a D-I coach. My son registered and maybe the coach liked how he looked. He asked him if he made it downstate. My son said he made it to semi state. The coach then t speak to him the entire clinic. Were we next door in Michigan with what four classes and he made it to state from a small Division IV school maybe he would have shown some interest. He surely may have lost interest quickly but by "qualifying for State " at least he may have noticed. That's just one example. I will say it is nice that the State Champ is the State Champ. Did your son end up wrestling D1? If not, maybe it was justified that he was snubbed by D1 coach. Most D1 wrestlers from Indiana are multiple SQs and usually state champs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Did your son end up wrestling D1? If not, maybe it was justified that he was snubbed by D1 coach. Most D1 wrestlers from Indiana are multiple SQs and usually state champs as well. The biggest problem is if he didn't know your from Indiana you had better make it to state or there not going to look at you and I'll add a little more fuel to the fire we have no wrestle backs to get to state with a bad draw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbburn12 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 My son isn't going to be a DI wrestler. The point I am making had he been in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio possibly he would have qualified for state. At that point the coach may have at least taken him to the side and explored it further before deciding D I wasn't for him. Maybe he says I have an ex-wrestler who is coaching at Southeastern North Dakota Tech ,I will recommend you to him. Understand this isn't sour grapes or a complaint. This is just an example of how someone that didn't qualify for State was looked at whereas someone that does qualify for State in a classed system may at least get some initial consideration. Again this isn't a vote for classed wrestling just an example of how a coach and probably others look potential recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If the coaches would spend more time at the ele. and middle schools trying to promote wrestling , saturdays on the football fields talking to parents. Shoot small towns at church and in your local diners. Thats where it all starts instead alot of coaches spend there time doing whatever making web pages ect. instead of trying to promote the sport in your town. Thats the things we need to do to improve the numbers in Indiana wrestling" not classing it." In the words of Cosgrove = One Champ in each weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughneck133 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I use to be for one division only. That was coming from a wrestler point of view in high school. After my first 3 years of college wrestling I then understood why classing would be better for Indiana. Good Indiana wrestlers are not getting enough exposure for college coaches to see and recruit. Especially without wrestle backs It hurts indiana kids even more. If no wrestle back then at least do a class system. I want to see more kids from Indiana go and wrestle in college. Some kids might only think about D1 wrestling and then not think they can wrestle in college. A kid might give it more consideration when they have a college coach calling them weekly and a class system would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I use to be for one division only. That was coming from a wrestler point of view in high school. After my first 3 years of college wrestling I then understood why classing would be better for Indiana. Good Indiana wrestlers are not getting enough exposure for college coaches to see and recruit. Especially without wrestle backs It hurts indiana kids even more. If no wrestle back then at least do a class system. I want to see more kids from Indiana go and wrestle in college. Some kids might only think about D1 wrestling and then not think they can wrestle in college. A kid might give it more consideration when they have a college coach calling them weekly and a class system would help. I have heard many coaches on this forum say"sometimes kids have to recruit the college" instead of colleges recruiting the kids. I believe this holds true for our very good (but not great) Indiana wrestlers who don't have the tournament series success but are fundamentally sound wrestlers. Does "making it to state" in class 3A or 2A make you a better wrestler ( more fundamentally sound, stronger, tougher, better college prospect) than being a semi state qualifier in a one class system? No, not in my opinion.(I.e.- It doesn't improve your skill level by having a more prestigious title...you still have to go prove yourself on the mat at all these colleges that are now going to magically recruit you because you are a classed state qualifier) Do some leg work and make a video, contact some D2, D3, NAIA schools in Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky and if all else fails go walk on somewhere and prove your mettle. Class wrestling will not grow our sport by leaps and bounds. Indiana is growing and proving itself as it is. It ain't broke...don't try to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just wondering if Ohio or Pennsylvania have open room restrictions during season? Okay I'll answer my own question they don't. All of the good kids can go work out with each other during season. "Iron Sharpens Iron". This is the main reason they are better than us and produce more AA's than us. Plus twice the population of Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughneck133 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I have heard many coaches on this forum say"sometimes kids have to recruit the college" instead of colleges recruiting the kids. I believe this holds true for our very good (but not great) Indiana wrestlers who don't have the tournament series success but are fundamentally sound wrestlers. Does "making it to state" in class 3A or 2A make you a better wrestler ( more fundamentally sound, stronger, tougher, better college prospect) than being a semi state qualifier in a one class system? No, not in my opinion.(I.e.- It doesn't improve your skill level by having a more prestigious title...you still have to go prove yourself on the mat at all these colleges that are now going to magically recruit you because you are a classed state qualifier) Do some leg work and make a video, contact some D2, D3, NAIA schools in Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky and if all else fails go walk on somewhere and prove your mettle. Class wrestling will not grow our sport by leaps and bounds. Indiana is growing and proving itself as it is. It ain't broke...don't try to fix it. A college coach still wants to see how a kid acts under pressure. And even if a kid is in a smaller division they are still having the same kind of pressure put on them wrestling in a ticket round or to place at state. And when it comes to skill level you can be the best wrestler and still not make it in college. College coaches want the skill obviously but they want a kid with mental toughness and who wont buckle under pressure. I agree kids still need to do work to get noticed by colleges as well. But with multiple classes could bring more college coaches since there is a bigger pool of kids to look at. Why not try to improve it? Don't be afraid of change. And I personally was happy that I chose a D2 school over a D1 school for college. I got to wrestle more and I still wrestled MI, MSU, OSU, Northwestern, IU, OH, Ohio State, Cleveland State, Central MI and Purdue just some schools off the top of my head. I still get to say I wrestled in college and made it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 as Indiana as a whole arent we like top 10 in the nation over all states? but as said above one guy stated he would not be attending if changed to classed systems I will tell you he wouldnt be the only one not attending he would be followed by several hundred people by that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 as Indiana as a whole arent we like top 10 in the nation over all states? but as said above one guy stated he would not be attending if changed to classed systems I will tell you he wouldnt be the only one not attending he would be followed by several hundred people by that change. Of all the Pros and cons of class wrestling, I think a positive would be the increased attendance. More schools would have participants and the result more people would attend to come see the the kid wrestle from their school or family wrestle. So do the math. One less Cosgrove and one less class hater =-2, offset by 500 more parents, 100 more grand parents, 25 uncles and aunts, 200 more brothers and sisters, 50 more girlfriends and 750 wrestling teammates and friends of the guys wrestling. Hate to see Cosgrove not go, but when I add it all up I get a net gain of 2,123 spectators or $42,460 dollars more gate. Also, somehow I think Cosgrove might still sneak in, but would never admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A couple notes on New Jersey's wrestling. They have classed team state and one class individual state. This is what makes perfect sense to me. But I do also understand the concept that 'success breeds interest which inturn breeds more success'. And the growth of wrestling in Indiana is what most if not all of us that visit this board want. The problem is we (on this board) are a minority and the powers that be have little interest in the growth of our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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