randalllynch Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Please read winter bulletin page 63, para B., line 5. Some things in this world are obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 For those wondering: "5. Coaches should strive to keep open minds when seedings are being decided. The main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals. Seeding shall be based upon the wrestler's proven ability and not upon the desire for unwarranted advantage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_fleenor171 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 If we're in an individual tourney and our wrestler receives an injury default from a sectional opponent does that count as a head to head win during seeding? Can't find the answer to this anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 For those wondering: "5. Coaches should strive to keep open minds when seedings are being decided. The main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals. Seeding shall be based upon the wrestler's proven ability and not upon the desire for unwarranted advantage." So your saying some coaches will use "no common opponent" and JV "varsity 2" records to achieve a seed that they might not deserve just because they want a number 1 seed?? So coaches will use this to get an easier or better road to achieve a higher place?? I find that hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_fleenor171 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes Alright thanks! Any chance you can show me or point me to where I can find that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm not sure where it specifically states that. But if it's recorded as a win, then it's a win. It doesn't matter how the win is achieved. Usually in the seeding meeting it's not even asked for score or anything. coaches just read wins or losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You won't make many friends if you use a shady injury default as a win for criteria. If your kid was up and the other kid was forced to default it would be fine, but if the other kid was winning or he didn't even step on the mat then it gets very shady. I would be very cautious of using something such as that to garner a better seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Stat Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You won't make many friends if you use a shady injury default as a win for criteria. If your kid was up and the other kid was forced to default it would be fine, but if the other kid was winning or he didn't even step on the mat then it gets very shady. I would be very cautious of using something such as that to garner a better seed. "Shady"? You are too kind! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I have seen this happen when there is a school with "inflated" records because they face weak competition. Then you have another school that wrestles a brutal schedule -- sometimes it's obvious who is the better wrestler, but the high percentage gets the better seed. Sometimes in the seeding meetings, people are fighting for that 4th seed because they would rather face the #1 seed than the #2 seed who is clearly the more skilled wrestler Not sure there is much that can be done about this though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1894life Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So if you are in a tournament and get hurt in the first match and can not wrestle for the rest of the day. You would end up with 4 losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So if you are in a tournament and get hurt in the first match and can not wrestle for the rest of the day. You would end up with 4 losses? At a tournament the most you could have would be 3 losses. If it were duals obviously those would not be losses. However, a few years ago we had a kid that made the semi-finals and we injury defaulted him to 6th place. I emailed Bobby Cox if all 3 of those losses(semi, consi-semi, 5th place match) counted on his record. He said only the first one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Are the criteria for sectional seeding the same as last year? How long has returning champ at the same weight not been on the list Also: Has furthest advancement in last year's state tournament series always been behind winning percentage? How often do two guys have the EXACT same win %? I don't see that one being used very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Are the criteria for sectional seeding the same as last year? How long has returning champ at the same weight not been on the list Also: Has furthest advancement in last year's state tournament series always been behind winning percentage? How often do two guys have the EXACT same win %? I don't see that one being used very often. I asked someone recently about the criteria because I thought that it had been changed last season during the tournament restructuring. It was to include "Semistate quarterfinalist in previous State tournament" above winning percentage. He said he believed the bulleting criteria was printed in error. This should have been the criteria listed. Determination of seeded wrestlers is given in order of importance: a. Head to head competition; (The wrestler with the most head to head wins gets the seed. If they have beaten each other an equal number of times, then the winner of the last match gets the seed.); b. Record against common opponents; c. Prior year IHSAA semi‐state quarterfinalist. d. A contestant with the best overall record (winning percentage) who has wrestled at least 10 matches; e. Farthest advancement in previous year IHSAA State Tournament Series; f. Draw by lot / Coin toss. Criteria is reset after determining each seed. NOTE: A wrestler with less than ten (10) matches may not be seeded ahead of a wrestler with at least ten (10) matches and a winning record unless he/she meets criteria in a, b or c. A wrestler with a losing record may not be seeded unless he/she meets criteria a, b or c unless there are less than six (6) wrestlers in the bracket. Not sure if this helps your personal situation, but I would think we need to get this cleared up before sectional meetings start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You won't make many friends if you use a shady injury default as a win for criteria. If your kid was up and the other kid was forced to default it would be fine, but if the other kid was winning or he didn't even step on the mat then it gets very shady. I would be very cautious of using something such as that to garner a better seed. What if the person who injury defaulted was in street clothes playing footsie with with his girlfriend with no real injury except for his pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Depends...is it true love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I asked someone recently about the criteria because I thought that it had been changed last season during the tournament restructuring. It was to include "Semistate quarterfinalist in previous State tournament" above winning percentage. He said he believed the bulleting criteria was printed in error. This should have been the criteria listed. Determination of seeded wrestlers is given in order of importance: a. Head to head competition; (The wrestler with the most head to head wins gets the seed. If they have beaten each other an equal number of times, then the winner of the last match gets the seed.); b. Record against common opponents; c. Prior year IHSAA semi‐state quarterfinalist. d. A contestant with the best overall record (winning percentage) who has wrestled at least 10 matches; e. Farthest advancement in previous year IHSAA State Tournament Series; f. Draw by lot / Coin toss. Criteria is reset after determining each seed. NOTE: A wrestler with less than ten (10) matches may not be seeded ahead of a wrestler with at least ten (10) matches and a winning record unless he/she meets criteria in a, b or c. A wrestler with a losing record may not be seeded unless he/she meets criteria a, b or c unless there are less than six (6) wrestlers in the bracket. Not sure if this helps your personal situation, but I would think we need to get this cleared up before sectional meetings start. Do you believe these changes will be made official before sectional seeding meetings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 What if both wrestlers have identical records and each have the latest victory against the other? MIND......BLOWN!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 If conjoined twins Ron and Don did wrestle and have a 30-4 record, would each one actually claim a 15-2 record and if so, would you seed them on opposite sides of the bracket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carseller0822 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 this has nothing to due with the original post in this thread but since it involves "seeds" I thought it best to ask here. if there is an 8 man seeded bracket with one forfeit what is used to determine who gets the free match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 this has nothing to due with the original post in this thread but since it involves "seeds" I thought it best to ask here. if there is an 8 man seeded bracket with one forfeit what is used to determine who gets the free match? Is it an 8 man bracket? Or is it a bracket with 8 seeded wrestlers? Either way, you usually blind draw the unseeded wrestlers and forfeits into the bracket. You usually only seed 4 wrestlers for an 8 man bracket, so therefore the other lines are drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Is it an 8 man bracket? Or is it a bracket with 8 seeded wrestlers? Either way, you usually blind draw the unseeded wrestlers and forfeits into the bracket. You usually only seed 4 wrestlers for an 8 man bracket, so therefore the other lines are drawn. With the exception that if there are 6 wrestlers (so 2 forfeits) I believe the goal would be to maintain an even bracket, so place one forfeit and one match on each side of the championship (rather than have 4 wrestlers on top bracket, and only 2 on bottom bracket) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julio Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It is amazing how many different ways people see the rules for seeding. ??? All one has to do is go to the IHSAA website and look on the winter bulletin, and they have the criteria for seeding Sectionals. But I guess each person will interpret it in their own way to get the best seed that they can, rather than what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It is amazing how many different ways people see the rules for seeding. ??? All one has to do is go to the IHSAA website and look on the winter bulletin, and they have the criteria for seeding Sectionals. But I guess each person will interpret it in their own way to get the best seed that they can, rather than what they deserve. I think you're right, except that this year the criteria have changed so much, some of us are questioning whether they were printed in the bulletin as they were intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carseller0822 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Is it an 8 man bracket? Or is it a bracket with 8 seeded wrestlers? Either way, you usually blind draw the unseeded wrestlers and forfeits into the bracket. You usually only seed 4 wrestlers for an 8 man bracket, so therefore the other lines are drawn. thank you for the explanation. btw, it's an 8 man bracket and they have everyone seeded 1-8 It shows that the #1 seed is wrestling the #8 and that #4 vs #5. #5 is the forfeit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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