ENoblewrestling Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Any CC fans know of any wrestlers having success this season on the Cross Country courses? We always focus on how wrestling and football go hand and hand, but those CC kids have great wind, and work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I ran cross country lettered all four years and was a semi state qualifier my Jr year.Its a great sport for wrestlers who may not make the best football players. Put me in the best shape of my life and definitely helps you maintain your weight and prepare for the upcoming season. And don't tell Snyder but according to my Dad, Coach Kov is the best coach I have ever had in any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambler Pro1 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sawyer Miller of South Adams is doing great in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sawyer Miller of South Adams is doing great in CC. He won the ACAC meet a couple weeks ago. I heard he is super fast due to his red hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 IMO as a personal trainer, CC and Wrestling, although they may appear to go hand, actually oppose each other. While CC is primarily aerobic by nature, wrestling is absolutely anaerobic. In short, in order to get faster for CC an individual needs to train to increase their max heart rate in order to enable themselves to maintain a higher pace while at 80% of their max output(MAX V02). Wrestlers on the other hand achieve that max heart rate much faster than a runner and have to perform while at a higher % of their Max heart rate. To sum it up. An in shape cross country runner will achieve exhaustion on the mat much faster than an in shape wrestler(ATP issue). The runner will be able to recover quickly. But a wrestlers muscle energy(ATP) access will be way ahead of a CC runner. This is the white vs red muscle fiber argument. CC is more of a red muscle activity that can, over long runs, weaken and therefore jeopardize white muscle which is the quick twitch muscle fiber that is the more primary muscle fiber needed for wrestling. This is an argument that has been going on for years and I'm sure will continue. I can say that my personal search to balance the two has gone on for over 20 years and unfortunately due to my age I'm no longer the best test subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I dont know the science behind it. It seemed to work for me. I was in phenomenal shape in high school. 5k is only 3 miles so it might not have affected me as much as if I had to train for say a 10k. I dont think I ever consistently ran more than 7-8 miles while training. I stayed around 3-5. Again no idea about the science behind it just my very vague guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Didn't Kyle Ayersman run Crosa Country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 MC, My thought would be it would be better for almost everyone as a pre-season than lets say sitting around on the couch playing video games. At least CC would put them on a regimen of daily activity you are expected to be at which will help in maintaining your weight and provide some cardio conditioning compared to doing nothing (or even a few other sports available in the fall). While I agree with you practice of CC doesn't specifically translate to what a wrestlers needs in season, it does provide more activity than we can trust many athletes to find on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 IMO as a personal trainer, CC and Wrestling, although they may appear to go hand, actually oppose each other. While CC is primarily aerobic by nature, wrestling is absolutely anaerobic. In short, in order to get faster for CC an individual needs to train to increase their max heart rate in order to enable themselves to maintain a higher pace while at 80% of their max output(MAX V02). Wrestlers on the other hand achieve that max heart rate much faster than a runner and have to perform while at a higher % of their Max heart rate. To sum it up. An in shape cross country runner will achieve exhaustion on the mat much faster than an in shape wrestler(ATP issue). The runner will be able to recover quickly. But a wrestlers muscle energy(ATP) access will be way ahead of a CC runner. This is the white vs red muscle fiber argument. CC is more of a red muscle activity that can, over long runs, weaken and therefore jeopardize white muscle which is the quick twitch muscle fiber that is the more primary muscle fiber needed for wrestling. This is an argument that has been going on for years and I'm sure will continue. I can say that my personal search to balance the two has gone on for over 20 years and unfortunately due to my age I'm no longer the best test subject. Not to discount your research. But just make sure the kids do some sprint workouts and throw some hills in there. You then will have your anaerobic. Plus I may be wrong, but I don't think I am, you don't really increase your max heart rate that has more to do with age and gender than anything. You actually get in shape so it is hard to hit your max heart rate. Therefore you can keep a sustained effort at a lower heart rate but at a faster pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I dont know the science behind it. It seemed to work for me. I was in phenomenal shape in high school. 5k is only 3 miles so it might not have affected me as much as if I had to train for say a 10k. I dont think I ever consistently ran more than 7-8 miles while training. I stayed around 3-5. Again no idea about the science behind it just my very vague guess. I agree. I'm sure 3-5 mile training runs, considering that the 5 milers were most likely in the 30-35 min time range, don't sap the white muscle nearly as much over time as the longer runs. I think the new standard for wresting involves much less "jogging" than in the past. It seems 30-40 yard sprints or 200 yard sprints have become the choice. And more so after live wrestling just to add conditioning and force your body to find those ATP reserves. Amazingly once a body learns to convert the ATP during an exhausted state it becomes more efficient at it moving forward. All the acronyms aside it's pretty cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yerah that seems right we never did distance training in season always sprint laps at the end. The distance runs I did were mostly for weight management purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Not to discount your research. But just make sure the kids do some sprint workouts and throw some hills in there. You then will have your anaerobic. Plus I may be wrong, but I don't think I am, you don't really increase your max heart rate that has more to do with age and gender than anything. You actually get in shape so it is hard to hit your max heart rate. Therefore you can keep a sustained effort at a lower heart rate but at a faster pace. Over the years I have done allot of research but at least as much info has come from just hard training. While max heart rate is tied to age, the conventional wisdom these days as far as heart rate goes says that an athletes ability to maintain a specific heart rate "range" is dependent on their max heart rate. If a runner is able to run at a sustained 80% of their max heart rate, which is an elite fitness level, if they increase their max heart rate, 80% of that max goes up as well. For instance, if max is 170 bpm 80% is 136. If you raise that max to 180 bpm, your 80% is now 144 bpm. That translates to a faster pace for the runner. As you get older raising your max becomes more difficult and your achievable max does lower with age. I've personally raised my own max as much as 35 bpm by running 10x400 yd sprints once a week to supplement 50+ miles per week running workouts(in the 1990's). That was the main factor that took me from a 3:15 marathon pace to a 2:50 pace. It can be done, but it's very hard training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 MC, My thought would be it would be better for almost everyone as a pre-season than lets say sitting around on the couch playing video games. At least CC would put them on a regimen of daily activity you are expected to be at which will help in maintaining your weight and provide some cardio conditioning compared to doing nothing (or even a few other sports available in the fall). While I agree with you practice of CC doesn't specifically translate to what a wrestlers needs in season, it does provide more activity than we can trust many athletes to find on their own. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I am just not finding anything on being able to increase your max heart rate on the internets. I can see you being able to push your body harder and the person actually hitting their max heart rate and not some other plateau. http://www.active.com/fitness/articles/understanding-your-heart-rates-and-exercise Quote from article. "Maximum heart rate is not a trainable attribute. This means as you become more or less fit -- your maximum heart rate does not change." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I am just not finding anything on being able to increase your max heart rate on the internets. I can see you being able to push your body harder and the person actually hitting their max heart rate and not some other plateau. http://www.active.com/fitness/articles/understanding-your-heart-rates-and-exercise Quote from article. "Maximum heart rate is not a trainable attribute. This means as you become more or less fit -- your maximum heart rate does not change." I understand the skepticism as I said I've heard both sides of this argument for years and read allot of documentation on both sides. The max heart rate does not change argument assumes that max is determined by either age or genetic disposition or both given that the work being done is equal. The problem with that is if that were true there wouldn't be people that achieve much higher max rates than others the same age doing the same training. It's not accurate unless you have test subjects that are at an elite fitness level to begin with. I've had several test subject two of which I use today. Without getting to deep into the data, both do the same training over an 8 week time frame with 1 day per week dedicated to "failure training" to establish the max heart rate and increase it. Both started the 8 wks in very good shape. Both lowered their resting heart rate and raised their max heart rate 15-20 bpm. This trend has been very consistent. I was once told by an MD that the more fit a person is the lower their max is. I know he's an MD, but I've never seen that to be true. I have a 15 yr old right now that has gone from 180 to over 200 bpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I agree with all of the above, on another note, I played football my 5th grade-junior year, my senior year I ran CC. The conditioning differance was phenominal! I wasn't the quickest guy on the mat, more of the boring reactive wrestler but my stanima was off the charts, in the practice room when everyone else was gassing out I was ready for more. I have no problem with football but would certanly encourage any wrestler not playing football or soccer to run CC. It made a world of differance for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I understand the skepticism as I said I've heard both sides of this argument for years and read allot of documentation on both sides. The max heart rate does not change argument assumes that max is determined by either age or genetic disposition or both given that the work being done is equal. The problem with that is if that were true there wouldn't be people that achieve much higher max rates than others the same age doing the same training. It's not accurate unless you have test subjects that are at an elite fitness level to begin with. I've had several test subject two of which I use today. Without getting to deep into the data, both do the same training over an 8 week time frame with 1 day per week dedicated to "failure training" to establish the max heart rate and increase it. Both started the 8 wks in very good shape. Both lowered their resting heart rate and raised their max heart rate 15-20 bpm. This trend has been very consistent. I was once told by an MD that the more fit a person is the lower their max is. I know he's an MD, but I've never seen that to be true. I have a 15 yr old right now that has gone from 180 to over 200 bpm. Fair enough. I will agree that there are 2 sides to the argument. I do believe almost every 15 year old should have a max of 200 bpm. Otherwise what is the point of being young. By the way a 2:50 marathon time is no joke. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I was always in great shape for cross country and wrestling my cross coach was awsome let me leave from cross practice to go to a wrestling practice about four times a week and i wasnt tired while wrestling and or running cross country or track id run long distances so i do not trust that science behind the scenes but i do know many of us are freaks and my body happens to be a freak so i put it through the roughest of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang13 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Any wrestlers make it to semi-state this weekend fit cross country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matdad Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Kudos to all the wrestlers that participate in cross training by doing another sport...bottom line is they are in better shape then many who don't participate...and are able to engage in a competitive atmosphere without overtraining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Seymour Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Speedway Soccer team has 3 wrestlers on it and they just moved on to semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salinas Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Is cross country better than sitting in your butt all fall? Absolutely. But looking back at it, and knowing what I know now, I wish I had not ran. Instead emphasized a high quality strength and conditioning program. Not running a whole bunch and obsessing over how skinny I can get. Cross country is a good preseason sport for a wrestler, but it is not the optimal use of their time with regards to their on the mat performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarnett Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Any wrestlers make it to semi-state this weekend fit cross country? Looks like Sawyer Miller had a top 10 finish at the SS and will be running in the state finals. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 If Sawyer wins state he will get the whole South Adams school unblocked from IndianaMat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the situation Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 "If Sawyer wins state he will get the whole South Adams school unblocked from IndianaMat." LOL! Justice at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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