J.G. Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 To be honest, whether the wrestler was told to put the water away, take another drink, never drink again, or to recite a verse of Killing Me Softly, that doesn't change the cowardice (or lack of) of the reporting coach. I feel there was no cowardice, but regardless, I do not see that related to the request/demand placed upon the wrestler. I agree that there was no cowardice on the part of the reporting coach. too bad that poeple try manipulate a situation in order to give them an excuse for something happening due to their own mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Please, use the medical terms that apply, "Fractured Endurance" and "Sprained Confidence." Take 90 seconds and some water and you will feel better immediately. I don't personally know you awood2. But by your comments I know we would get along just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 i think in the end this is what we know.....busco made a coaching mistake and admits to it......no big deal.....it happens.....the opposing coach told on the kid knowing that there would be a DQ......and in my opinion, that is pretty lame......he should have just told busco that the kid was doing something he shouldn't have been and let him correct it.....that is the only "adult" thing to do and it bleeds common sense......and lastly, Y2 will not give a yes or no answer to the question of was he referring to busco in his comment earlier on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Man, I was worried this thread was dying! I think the issue is being obfuscated to did busco or didn't busco tell the kid to put the water away. This truly has no bearing on the issue at hand. The question I would like answered by the "law abiders" is "would you, in the situation as presented, as an opposing coach, go to the ref and point out the breaking of the rule or would you go to the kid's coach and tell him the kid is in danger of being dq'd if he doesn't stop driking water? Frankly, once the ref was notified, he had no choice but to uphold the "letter of the law" and dq the kid. IMO, it didn't have to get that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I agree that there was no cowardice on the part of the reporting coach. too bad that poeple try manipulate a situation in order to give them an excuse for something happening due to their own mistake. Thinking of a coach turning the kid in during the weigh in made me think of the following: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 i think in the end this is what we know.....busco made a coaching mistake and admits to it......no big deal.....it happens.....the opposing coach told on the kid knowing that there would be a DQ......and in my opinion, that is pretty lame......he should have just told busco that the kid was doing something he shouldn't have been and let him correct it.....that is the only "adult" thing to do and it bleeds common sense......and lastly, Y2 will not give a yes or no answer to the question of was he referring to busco in his comment earlier on...... i need to correct what i said......i meant "IF" the opposing coach notified the ref.....sorry about that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Man, I was worried this thread was dying! I think the issue is being obfuscated to did busco or didn't busco tell the kid to put the water away. This truly has no bearing on the issue at hand. The question I would like answered by the "law abiders" is "would you, in the situation as presented, as an opposing coach, go to the ref and point out the breaking of the rule or would you go to the kid's coach and tell him the kid is in danger of being dq'd if he doesn't stop driking water? Frankly, once the ref was notified, he had no choice but to uphold the "letter of the law" and dq the kid. IMO, it didn't have to get that far. I think it is an acceptable stance for one to say he personally would inform the coach first, but that the same person feels it is OK for a different coach to make the decision to go to an official first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Frankly, once the ref was notified, he had no choice but to uphold the "letter of the law" and dq the kid. IMO, it didn't have to get that far. Yep yep and yep. Who knows the ref may have already caught it out of the corner of his eye and chose to ignore it. But once a coach tells him he is obligated to do something about it or he gets reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think the issue is being obfuscated to did busco or didn't busco tell the kid to put the water away. It does matter. If I tell my kid to stop locking hands and he continues to do so should I blame the other coach for yelling "locked hands" at the ref? You don't have to cite a rule for everything you say. Maybe your coach in high school stated things like, "do not figure four the body Joe due to rule 16.1.3b, you will be penalized a point, thank you ." No wonder Illinois is so much better at wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It does matter. If I tell my kid to stop locking hands and he continues to do so should I blame the other coach for yelling "locked hands" at the ref? You don't have to cite a rule for everything you say. Maybe your coach in high school stated things like, "do not figure four the body Joe due to rule 16.1.3b, you will be penalized a point, thank you ." No wonder Illinois is so much better at wrestling. Not a bad point Joe. But I think where this comes in, does the punishment fit the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I agree that there was no cowardice on the part of the reporting coach. too bad that poeple try manipulate a situation in order to give them an excuse for something happening due to their own mistake. Man I am not attempting to manipulate anything. I brought forth something that I thought would be good for discussion. The topic has lasted 7 pages, so I would say it has been something that people have differing opinions on. I have said that I was in the wrong. The situation in the end comes down on me. I thought it would be a good discussion, so stop trying to make it seem like something it is not, i'm not trying to excuse myself, or to take the blame off of me. Just bringing a debate to the table. Also stop claiming that my story has changed during this. I am telling you what happened, my wording may be confusing at times, but I promise you i'm not looking for an excuse for my screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It does matter. If I tell my kid to stop locking hands and he continues to do so should I blame the other coach for yelling "locked hands" at the ref? You don't have to cite a rule for everything you say. Maybe your coach in high school stated things like, "do not figure four the body Joe due to rule 16.1.3b, you will be penalized a point, thank you ." No wonder Illinois is so much better at wrestling. Seems that your point is that the justification of busco calling another coach cowardly hinges on whether or not he told his kid to stop drinking. I very much disagree with this. Regardless of what busco told the wrestler, the opposing coach is not cowardly and did not do something wrong. I think busco can be flatly disagreed with without getting into the semantics of what exactly he told his wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not a bad point Joe. But I think where this comes in, does the punishment fit the crime? What punishment would you suggest? I can't really see any other suitable punishment. You can't penalize team points or match points during weigh-ins. I don't think refs should dish out stair laps or push-ups either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Seems that your point is that the justification of busco calling another coach cowardly hinges on whether or not he told his kid to stop drinking. I very much disagree with this. Regardless of what busco told the wrestler, the opposing coach is not cowardly and did not do something wrong. I think busco can be flatly disagreed with without getting into the semantics of what exactly he told his wrestler. If I am at weigh-ins and I see a kid take a drink of water and then immediately after see the coach tell him to put that away I am not going to say anything. If after defying his coach's order he continues to do it then I will probably say something to a ref. I am not going to sit there wondering if he told the kid to stop because he was joking around or because of the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 What punishment would you suggest? I can't really see any other suitable punishment. You can't penalize team points or match points during weigh-ins. I don't think refs should dish out stair laps or push-ups either. I wouldn't suggest any punishment for this. But that is my opinion. I mean really this rule is dumb for wrestlers trying to gain weight. The kid takes a couple drinks of water and gets disqualified but you have kids that haven't eaten or drank in 2 days but they are okay. And you can't tell me that coaches don't know this is happening. But yet we get coaches on here who act like they are morally clean when it comes to this stuff and it should be black and white. Be a man walk up to the other coach and say you need to watch that before the ref sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardsr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 i think in the end this is what we know.....busco made a coaching mistake and admits to it......no big deal.....it happens.....the opposing coach told on the kid knowing that there would be a DQ......and in my opinion, that is pretty lame......he should have just told busco that the kid was doing something he shouldn't have been and let him correct it.....that is the only "adult" thing to do and it bleeds common sense......and lastly, Y2 will not give a yes or no answer to the question of was he referring to busco in his comment earlier on...... I have heard many people stating that reporting this to the Ref was a cowardice act. Can someone explain cowardice to me, what apparently busco either obviously didn't care enough about his wrestler competing in the first place, because he allowed him to keep the water bottle or just was not adult enough to just say put it away because I as an adult said so. Now no one knows or has stated that possibly the so called cowardly coach had seen busco talking to this wrestler and figured he didn't correct the situation and so he reported it to the ref. After listening to a lot of you so called coaches speak on here I really would begin to question the ethics of individuals that have such influence on these children. What's next, It's ok to use steroids or other enhancements as long as you don't get caught? I know this is a little extreme but same judgement applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If I am at weigh-ins and I see a kid take a drink of water and then immediately after see the coach tell him to put that away I am not going to say anything. If after defying his coach's order he continues to do it then I will probably say something to a ref. I am not going to sit there wondering if he told the kid to stop because he was joking around or because of the rule. I understand, but I am saying if you think it is OK for an opposing coach to go to the official to alert him to a weigh-in violation regardless of circumstances (which is the impression I got from you), then is it necessary dissect exactly what was said to the wrestler? I say no. If you say yes, then we can agree to disagree. If I got the wrong impression, then disregard what I have said. It is irrelevant. I aint mad at ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 What's next, It's ok to use steroids or other enhancements as long as you don't get caught? I know this is a little extreme but same judgement applies. Really????? We jumped from a swig of water to steroids??? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardsr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Really????? We jumped from a swig of water to steroids??? LOL Read the last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Read the last part. I did and you still went there. This where the common sense part comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Read the last part. I totally understand and agree with you are saying, but people on the other side of an argument almost never let you make comparisons like that. Almost like our brains are programmed to reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardsr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I did and you still went there. This where the common sense part comes in. Ok I concede, maybe should have worded it a little differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok I concede, maybe should have worded it a little differently. Don't get me wrong I think there are plenty of coaches out there that I would not want my kids around. I also see a ton of verbally abusive coaches (which everyone can see this) and they still have a job. I would rip my kid out of a program like that real quick. Also I do think rules are there to be followed. But I also think that a reminder of what the rules are in some cases will work. If the kid was doing it to gain weight or was breaking the rule on purpose. Toss em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Punishment for this crime... How about 20 lashes with a wet noodle. That sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It does matter. If I tell my kid to stop locking hands and he continues to do so should I blame the other coach for yelling "locked hands" at the ref? You don't have to cite a rule for everything you say. Maybe your coach in high school stated things like, "do not figure four the body Joe due to rule 16.1.3b, you will be penalized a point, thank you ." No wonder Illinois is so much better at wrestling. That, and they have class wrestling . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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