KarlHungus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Rather than question the motives of of coaches or refs who enforce rules...here is a crazy idea...don't put kids in a situation where they could potentially be DQ'd. If refs and other coaches look the other way during the regular season it might come back and bite you when it really matters at sectional or conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hey Joe I saw you speeding the other day. Don't worry I told the cops for you. Honestly how far do things need to be taken? I like the common sense method. If he was drinking it to make a weight. Yes DQ him. If he was just not thinking a warning and a chance to educate the rest of the team about what can happen should work. As an opposing coach talking to the other coach should suffice. Where that coach takes it with his wrestler and his team is where the ethics should come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hey Joe I saw you speeding the other day. Don't worry I told the cops for you. Honestly how far do things need to be taken? I like the common sense method. If he was drinking it to make a weight. Yes DQ him. If he was just not thinking a warning and a chance to educate the rest of the team about what can happen should work. As an opposing coach talking to the other coach should suffice. Where that coach takes it with his wrestler and his team is where the ethics should come in. A wrestler who is .2 over is not trying to get an advantage so we should let them wrestle?? It becomes a slippery slope and you put your kids in jeopardy if you rely on others "common sense"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A wrestler who is .2 over is not trying to get an advantage so we should let them wrestle?? It becomes a slippery slope and you put your kids in jeopardy if you rely on others "common sense"? Not a bad point. Just seems a little extreme to me. But that could be the old school coming out of me. You know when you spit in bottles and stood on your head right before you weighed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 A. I am 100% certain you know if it was a coach or ref who saw the action B. I am certain you know it was more than one drink Ok, I felt I cleared this up in an earlier post. 1. I swear I do not know what you are refering to. I only know the ref that infomed me of the disqualification. I assume that he saw him drinking the water. I was told by another ref that they (the referees) were informed of him drinking the water by another coach. 2.I'm sorry If it wasn't clear in my earlier posts, I believe that he had more than one drink. I promise you I only saw him take the one drink, but it would not shock me if he had more than one, as I did not tell him to stop after the drink. I dont believe he was chugging water or anything like that. He took one drink in front of me, then I was busy watching the weigh-in. I do not know were you are getting your infomation from, but I promise you are 100% wrong that I know who saw the action, or saw him take more than one drink. We may be on different topics or something here, but I do not know if a ref saw it first, or if it was a coach. Again one of the ref's told me it was a coach, and I tend to believe that, but I do not know which one, or which ref was originally told. If you know please let me know, because I would love to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Rather than question the motives of of coaches or refs who enforce rules...here is a crazy idea...don't put kids in a situation where they could potentially be DQ'd. If refs and other coaches look the other way during the regular season it might come back and bite you when it really matters at sectional or conference. I said its on me, I should have told him, I didnt think about it. In the end it is my fault, I just wanted to see what others thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Being .2 over is common sense. There has to be a cut off some where. Being DQed for taking a couple of drinks of water is a little beyond teaching a lesson. The lesson the kid learned is that some adults take things to literal and will look for any way to get an upper hand in competition. By the letter of the law everyone is suppose to be in the room when weigh ins begin. What about a team that is running late for traffic reasons... is the whole team DQed? After all they could have been doing push ups/sit ups on bus to lose that extra couple tenths....or god forbid they could have drank some coffee to bump up while everyone else had started. C'mon MAN!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I said its on me, I should have told him, I didnt think about it. In the end it is my fault, I just wanted to see what others thought. When you infer that it is somehow cowardly of a coach to report a rules violation and that you are brave because you would look the other way and let the best wrestle best, it appears as if you are looking for sympathy for your plight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Being .2 over is common sense. There has to be a cut off some where. Being DQed for taking a couple of drinks of water is a little beyond teaching a lesson. The lesson the kid learned is that some adults take things to literal and will look for any way to get an upper hand in competition. By the letter of the law everyone is suppose to be in the room when weigh ins begin. What about a team that is running late for traffic reasons... is the whole team DQed? After all they could have been doing push ups/sit ups on bus to lose that extra couple tenths....or god forbid they could have drank some coffee to bump up while everyone else had started. C'mon MAN!!! Dude There is a cutoff on the amount of hydration that can take place in the weigh in room...none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 We had a wrestler at regional last year who was controlling his match and winning. He had been riding tough for about a minute of the second period when his opponent got to feet. Our guy stepped between the guys leg and the opponent grabbed our guy's leg, scooped and our guy rolled back (still in control) and for a brief moment had shoulders on the mat. The ref sees this and quickly calls defensive pin. In the spirit of the rule, should the ref have just let it go? I mean, our guy's shoulders were down less time than some offensive pins are missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thats a good question. Is it cowardly for a coach to turn in a kid on a violation that is obviously not intending to cheat in anyway, or is that coach being ethical and following the rules as written? I know I wouldn't have said anything, so does that make me unethical? Or am I being brave for wanting our kids to face the other teams best? Karl I'm asking what people feel right here. Its a discussion board, and many would consider telling the ref's the ethical thing to do, by me saying that I wouldn't in a way I'm calling myself out to those who feel the ethical choice is the letter of the law. Just trying to get discussion, don't really care about who agrees or disagrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Karl I'm asking what people feel right here. Its a discussion board, and many would consider telling the ref's the ethical thing to do, by me saying that I wouldn't in a way I'm calling myself out to those who feel the ethical choice is the letter of the law. Just trying to get discussion, don't really care about who agrees or disagrees with me. But you said the informing coach was a coward and you are brave because you want the best to face the best. If you are willing to rationalize this rule away, what other rules are you willing to rationalize away and not follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I want cool points back. This comment gets one from me. Exactly... Ask yourself, what does this have to do with putting points on the board? Here is an idea, officials score the matches, coaches teach ethics. If you feel that strongly about it give everybody in the room a sip at the scale and everyone is happy and hydrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here is a question. What good came of this? I say nothing. That being said, why does he even have a bottle near him while weighing in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hey Joe I saw you speeding the other day. Don't worry I told the cops for you. Honestly how far do things need to be taken? I like the common sense method. If he was drinking it to make a weight. Yes DQ him. If he was just not thinking a warning and a chance to educate the rest of the team about what can happen should work. As an opposing coach talking to the other coach should suffice. Where that coach takes it with his wrestler and his team is where the ethics should come in. Don't worry I saw your rolling stop, eye for an eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here is a question. What good came of this? I say nothing. That being said, why does he even have a bottle near him while weighing in? For those that feel understanding and following rules is a good thing, then some good certainly came out of this. At least one coach and one wrestler learned a valuable lesson. I say some good came from that. I bet many coaches reading this thread will have a talk with their team about this. Some more good. Someone on this board has a little slogan that says something about the best teacher is the experience of others. Might apply here. Good subject to bring up if only to just make sure others don't make the same mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Ok, I felt I cleared this up in an earlier post. 1. I swear I do not know what you are refering to. I only know the ref that infomed me of the disqualification. I assume that he saw him drinking the water. I was told by another ref that they (the referees) were informed of him drinking the water by another coach. 2.I'm sorry If it wasn't clear in my earlier posts, I believe that he had more than one drink. I promise you I only saw him take the one drink, but it would not shock me if he had more than one, as I did not tell him to stop after the drink. I dont believe he was chugging water or anything like that. He took one drink in front of me, then I was busy watching the weigh-in. I do not know were you are getting your infomation from, but I promise you are 100% wrong that I know who saw the action, or saw him take more than one drink. We may be on different topics or something here, but I do not know if a ref saw it first, or if it was a coach. Again one of the ref's told me it was a coach, and I tend to believe that, but I do not know which one, or which ref was originally told. If you know please let me know, because I would love to know. Where did I ever state you knew the coach who reported it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Where did I ever state you knew the coach who reported it? You never did. Like I said I was told it was reported by a coach, but didn't know for sure, and I didn't know who it was. Not something that I personally would have done but as we see in this thread there are differing views on it. Y2 curious as to what you would do in a situation like this. Again its really my fault when you boil it down, but curious as to what other coaches would do here. Also do you think it made a difference who the kid was? Had it been a jv freshman instead would anyone have said anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 My son is a freshman this year and he was unaware of the rule. His coach is a first year guy and a.fairly experienced wrestler and he probably knows the rule but has never stated it to the team. Good to know and thanks busco for bringing it up. I understand the rationale as well. That being said, im pretty sure the "law abiders" (mr hungus and mr y2) would probably not go to a ref in a weigh in room and point out a kid obviously making a mistake but breaking the rules nonetheless. Bet they would go to the kids coach and tell him. At least i hope thats what they would do. Sounds like the opposing coach pulled a bush league move in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. I hope busco still kicked the crap out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtoe19 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Here is M.O. was he wrong YES! If the ref seen with his own eye's he got caught! If another Coach informed the Ref than he is a Snitch or Informant!! It is all for the kids, he was below weight any ways! Let them wrestle , use common sense! don't the Bad guy and cost a kid to miss in his Senior year! I have seen a School and AD shaft a couple kids for 365 day of eligibility first hand! it is wrong these coach are to Teach and mentor are kids not PUNISH them!! Snitch's will get dealt with, Karma. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardsr Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Here is M.O. was he wrong YES! If the ref seen with his own eye's he got caught! If another Coach informed the Ref than he is a Snitch or Informant!! It is all for the kids, he was below weight any ways! Let them wrestle , use common sense! don't the Bad guy and cost a kid to miss in his Senior year! I have seen a School and AD shaft a couple kids for 365 day of eligibility first hand! it is wrong these coach are to Teach and mentor are kids not PUNISH them!! Snitch's will get dealt with, Karma. :-\ Bigtoe, I think a rule is a rule and if broken and you get caught by any adult/Coach then it is our responsibility to report it. What example are we setting here? It's ok to do whatever you want no matter what the rules are as long as you don't get caught. Don't know about you but I didn't raise my kid that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.G. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Here is M.O. was he wrong YES! If the ref seen with his own eye's he got caught! If another Coach informed the Ref than he is a Snitch or Informant!! It is all for the kids, he was below weight any ways! Let them wrestle , use common sense! don't the Bad guy and cost a kid to miss in his Senior year! I have seen a School and AD shaft a couple kids for 365 day of eligibility first hand! it is wrong these coach are to Teach and mentor are kids not PUNISH them!! Snitch's will get dealt with, Karma. :-\ How would it be a coach or Ref costing the kid to miss the match when it was the kid who broke the rule? Rules are rules and are in place for a reason. Just because we don't agree with them doesn't mean we won't be held to them. The fault lies on the wrestler as he was breaking the rule and the coach or ref who saw it had every right to report it. it's too bad that it happened if the wrestler wasn't truly trying to make a higher weight but sometimes in life instances like this will happen and we have to be able to take it in stride and continue on our paths. After all, High school athletics should be teaching kids life lessons as well. I don't think telling kids that rules aren't needed or shouldn't be in place is a very good life lesson to teach and it reflects poorly on the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 How would it be a coach or Ref costing the kid to miss the match when it was the kid who broke the rule? Rules are rules and are in place for a reason. Just because we don't agree with them doesn't mean we won't be held to them. The fault lies on the wrestler as he was breaking the rule and the coach or ref who saw it had every right to report it. it's too bad that it happened if the wrestler wasn't truly trying to make a higher weight but sometimes in life instances like this will happen and we have to be able to take it in stride and continue on our paths. After all, High school athletics should be teaching kids life lessons as well. I don't think telling kids that rules aren't needed or shouldn't be in place is a very good life lesson to teach and it reflects poorly on the coach. Thank you. That was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think this thread is a good example of a topic where just about everyone agrees, whether stated or not, that common sense in the moment would prevail and the whistle blowing probably shouldnt have occurred. However, there is always a vocal minority that have to come across as always supporting the rules in a black and white way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think this thread is a good example of a topic where just about everyone agrees, whether stated or not, that common sense in the moment would prevail and the whistle blowing probably shouldnt have occurred. However, there is always a vocal minority that have to come across as always supporting the rules in a black and white way. You really don't think the views are equally represented in this thread? I haven't gone back and counted how many have posted on each side of the argument, but it seems that there are about half dozen on each side. If this rule (or any rule) is intended to be a "common sense" interpretation, it would be given a vague general description. No drinking water during weigh in does not seem like a vague description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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