KarlHungus Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Your telling me to figure it out. Figure what out? You seem to have accused me of stretching the rules to help my team. I have no clue what you are referring to. If you are not talking about me, than please make that clear. If you are I would like to know what you are referring to. As a coach who frequents this board it does not seem right to throw out apparent accusations about another coach without backing them up in some way. If you are referring to another coach, which could be the case let that be known to. You mean like calling other coaches cowards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 You mean like calling other coaches cowards? Yes, in so many words I said this. I felt it was a cowardly act. I also felt that others would have differing opinions on the issue, so I wrote about it on a discussion board, to discuss the issue. I'm not saying one side is right or wrong, just felt we could have an intellegent and reasonable discussion on it. If me feeling that action was cowardly, is the same as me stretching the rules to gain percieved advantages then yes I am guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo1 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Would it also be a violation of the written rule to allow a wrestler to take a drink after they have weighed-in, while weigh-ins were still in progress for other competitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Would it also be a violation of the written rule to allow a wrestler to take a drink after they have weighed-in, while weigh-ins were still in progress for other competitors? Guilty again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 can some one link to the rule or put it here incase i missed it in the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 can some one link to the rule or put it here incase i missed it in the thread? be careful.. You might get a FIO reply... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If it was a coach, I would hope that coach would go tell the wrestlers coach what his wrestler was doing before he went to the official. This is a great point AJ. We certainly should encourage following the rules, but we should also be educators. Everyone should make every attempt to know the rules and follow them, but as much as the rules change people do get confused or things slip through the cracks. With all of the "lay coaches" we have moving in and out of the sport I have to believe it is tough to keep up. There have been plenty of times over the years where I have witnessed something and informed the coach other than making an issue out of it. I remember once telling a caochduring a blood time out that his wrestler did nothave his laces covered (the Official had not seen it) and he might want to check his other guys as well. The coach casually got some tape on his kid's laces and I saw several other members of his team taping as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 This is a great point AJ. We certainly should encourage following the rules, but we should also be educators. Everyone should make every attempt to know the rules and follow them, but as much as the rules change people do get confused or things slip through the cracks. With all of the "lay coaches" we have moving in and out of the sport I have to believe it is tough to keep up. There have been plenty of times over the years where I have witnessed something and informed the coach other than making an issue out of it. I remember once telling a caochduring a blood time out that his wrestler did nothave his laces covered (the Official had not seen it) and he might want to check his other guys as well. The coach casually got some tape on his kid's laces and I saw several other members of his team taping as well. Cool Points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 be careful.. You might get a FIO reply... lol im ok witht that i already googled and checked the NFHS website....got nothing maybe soeone with a rulebook can write it out idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 im ok witht that i already googled and checked the NFHS website....got nothing maybe soeone with a rulebook can write it out idk You mean you don't get a rulebook with that stylish purple shirt? WEAK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 We had a wrestler at regional last year who was controlling his match and winning. He had been riding tough for about a minute of the second period when his opponent got to feet. Our guy stepped between the guys leg and the opponent grabbed our guy's leg, scooped and our guy rolled back (still in control) and for a brief moment had shoulders on the mat. The ref sees this and quickly calls defensive pin. In the spirit of the rule, should the ref have just let it go? I mean, our guy's shoulders were down less time than some offensive pins are missed. In the same vein....if the Official calls a fall and the opposing coach saw that both shoulders were not down, or it was too fast, should the opposing coach call the Official to the table and assk that the Official take away the pin? Should the opposong coach who sees that a takedown his wrestler scored was actually not a takedown get the Officials attention and have him wave it off? Should the coach who sees that his wrestler locked hands inform the Official that his wrestler should be penalized?....You get the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well when you are as awesome as us you can just usually make up the rules on the spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 You know what I'd like to see... Hungus and Y2 have it out on here... it might break records for longest thread. Also as the usual players chime in... somebody call in BTR and Coach Harmon and this thread could reach epic, EPIC, EPIC levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 In the same vein....if the Official calls a fall and the opposing coach saw that both shoulders were not down, or it was too fast, should the opposing coach call the Official to the table and assk that the Official take away the pin? Should the opposong coach who sees that a takedown his wrestler scored was actually not a takedown get the Officials attention and have him wave it off? Should the coach who sees that his wrestler locked hands inform the Official that his wrestler should be penalized?....You get the picture. Yes if want to be black and white with these issues. This would fall under the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.G. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Meat: Lesson the kid learned was that some adults are just jerks and apply the rules when it benefits them. Which is a good life lesson I guess : Dude Hopefully he has enough common sense as mentioned before to realize that it wasn't due to adults being jerks but due to the fact that he violated a rule, even if he wasn't aware. I'm hoping that wrestler or any others on the team won't make the same mistake again this year. It's better that it happened now then happening in the post season. People can argue as much as they want but the fact is a rule was broken and the rule was enforced. The coaches and ref's should be holding the wrestlers and teams accountable for their actions as they will be held accountable in every aspect of their lives after they graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well when you are as awesome as us you can just usually make up the rules on the spot One day I hope to become that awesome...it will help when I am officially cast in a big time movie like Champion of Glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I am sure all of you stay in your seat and behind the tape line when you are coaching. You probably never coach your kid during injury timeouts. I bet not one of you have ever called a ref to the table and not gotten a coach's misconduct call. You always stop a kid from walking across an unused mat with his straps down. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.G. Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 You mean like calling other coaches cowards? it's pretty ridiculous and imature to call other coaches cowards because they followed the rules. If anything it would be more brave to follow the rules since it seems there is a majority in favor of not following them. I know Hungus wasn't calling coaches cowards but was quoting another's post. I've heard coaches ask why they are seeing more and more athletes with bad attitudes and my personal opinion is because there are coaches who are instilling a sense of entitlement and setting bad exmaples for their athletes. how are athletes supposed to abide by the rules and be respectful and display good sportsmanship when their coaches don't??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I am sure all of you stay in your seat and behind the tape line when you are coaching. You probably never coach your kid during injury timeouts. I bet not one of you have ever called a ref to the table and not gotten a coach's misconduct call. You always stop a kid from walking across an unused mat with his straps down. : As has been stated by the originator of this thread, a question was asked and input was sought. All of the criticism toward those who say "rules are rules" leads me to believe that the criticizers don't really want an opposing view point. Additionally, by the logic of many on here, you can only suggest someone follow a rule if you always follow it yourself. I don't know about the rest of you, but living that way would make it tremendously difficult for me to be an effective teacher, coach, or father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think this is a great discussion...because I actually think many coaches see a little of both sides. Where are we as coaches supposed to decipher when to enforce rules? let me give you an example, I like to think I am pretty strict with our kids...but I know I have coached a match where my kids' hands touched and no one saw it, so ethically do I stop the match go to the ref and tell him I saw this and the other kid should be awarded a point?? Whether he can or does is not the question but is it on me to at least tell the ref then my conscious is clear? same with full nelson, or illegal headlock or whatever. Are these the smaller rules that I should leave up to the ref?? Or am I ethically responsible to say something? If I am responsible do coaches do this every time? I have never seen it happen (not that it doesnt) but I have just never seen it. If coaches dont do this where do they draw the line on what rules they adhere to and which one is allowed to continue and which one is someone elses responsibility to call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Then why did you say everyone agrees? i am saying that the majority of you (what ill call black and white law abiders), if faced with the situation as presented, would not run to the ref, but would talk to the kids coach, something most reasonable people would do. In so doing, you would be tacitly agreeing that applying the rule ro a kid making an honest mistake would be inapprolriate. It least i hope you would do that? Would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I understand that this is the rule and all rules should be followed to achieve the intent of that rule. My question is why was this made a rule. Shouldn't kids be allowed to cut weight or gain weight right up until they step on the scale? When you conduct weigh-ins by weight class I do not see how any one individual would recieve any sort of advantage or disadvantage from being allowed to do so. A majority of the wrestlers will be 5-10 pounds heavier when the matches begin anyway, and as much as 15-20 by the time of the finals matches. As long as you are on weight when you step on the scale, why does it matter whether you have been on weight for 2 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes or 15 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 What if the kid is drinking water right in front of the coach and the coach is not doing anything to stop him? What if the coach is well known for stretching the rules at every corner to gain perceived advantages for them? When I started this post I said that I thought it would be good for discussion, and it has been. I have no problem with people who feel that the situation went by the book, and that it should go by the book. That?s the point of a discussion board, to discuss things. The only problem that I have is in the person debating the ethical issues of this topic insinuating that I as a coach am known for stretching the rules in every corner to gain a perceived advantage. I have acknowledged numerous times that I saw the kid take a drink. I have acknowledged that he broke the letter of the law. I have no clue what is meant by the second statement. I have asked publicly on this topic and through IM for a reason why my name should be dragged through the mud like this, and I received no answer from Y2. In response Hungus and others have said that I claimed the coaches who called our guy out were cowards. I said that I felt that the act was cowardly, not the coaches themselves. I also went on to use it in a question that debated my own view point, look back through the discussion you?ll see it. I honestly feel it is a good discussion that has had several people with differing views, which is not a problem. Y2?s claim was also defended by the fact that I allowed my wrestler to drink during weigh-ins which is a violation of the rules. I have already admitted my mistake, and take blame for it several times during this debate. The biggest problem that I have with this entire topic is the leader of this board making baseless claims about my character, and the character of my program. The only backing points that have been put forward are ones that take my words out of context, and one that relates to the situation in question which I have already acknowledged my fault in. I have a real problem with baseless claims that I ?stretch rules at every corner to gain perceived advantages?. I have no clue where this claim came from, and find it sad that the coach who stands behind his ethics throws baseless claims like this around on his message board. I have no clue what I have done to him to deserve these claims, but it is sad that he has to make things up in a simple debate that was meant to be a good topic for this message board. He also claimed that he had 100% knowledge of things that I supposedly knew about, which I honestly did not. So please feel free to debate this topic, but I would be sure to ask questions about Y2?s motives for the personal attacks that I have received, because I have no clue where they came from or what is meant by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Usually personal attacks begin with naming the said individual of the attack. Putting up two what if statements doesn't constitute a personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Usually personal attacks begin with naming the said individual of the attack. Putting up two what if statements doesn't constitute a personal attack. Seeing that the first statement was a situation that I have already clearly admitted to having done, I figured the second was directed my way as well. I felt it was reasonable to assume that you were at least insinuating that it was me. If you say it was meant to be an anonymous situation, and not directed my way, I can live with that, I just want to make sure it wasn?t directed at me or our program is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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