ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 We had a situation this weekend at our conference duals that I thought might make for a fun discussion. At the time I didn't think it was too funny, but live and learn I guess. Anyhow we had a wrestler, a pretty decent one at that, who was going to wrestle in his first matches of the season this weekend. He is wrestling up a weight class this year because he shares a weight with another quality kid on our team, and instead of fighting it out all year, the wrestler I am talking about chose to simply go up a weight class. During weigh-ins he was jacking around and took a drink of water from a water bottle. The ref's either saw this, or were informed of it by another coach, and he was disqualified for the day from wrestling, for attempting to gain weight after the start of weigh-ins. No question the rule was broken, but if we look at his intent it was obviously not to gain weight. At the time I was pretty mad at the referees, looking back at it, it I really put the blame more on myself for not keeping on him. So what is your view on a situation like this? Would a warning suffice? Should you go by the letter of the law? Does intent play any role? Just to reiterate, I am not angry with what transpired, I was at the time, but I blame myself now. I just think it makes for an interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How does the actual rule read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe the Line Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 think more info is needed to actually have a real discussion on this and the ruling! what was his weight at weigh ins? did he need to drink the water to weigh appropriately? i'm sure he was under but how much? Sometimes they (officials) make calls that they deem appropriate to keep law and order for everybody and not on a one on one basis to make them look more accountable.....not sure if that is always the best thing to do and i truely believe it would have depended on the official that was there on if and what the decission would have been!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Just an opinion and I am not sure about what the rule actually says. I would have weighed the kid in and if he was close to being too light. Like a pound or two I would have not let him wrestle. Otherwise I would have made and announcement to both teams about how it works and what not to do. Especially since it is early in the season. Was this at your school or another? If it was at yours I would take everything into account and then approach your AD on if you want that ref back or not. That is the great thing about the system, if the ref is horrible just don't ask him back. Why do you think you don't see Lopshire at very many places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 The kid was around 193. He was going to wrestle 220 all day. The only reason that we would have been trying to have him gain weight would have been to make him wrestle 285, which he still needed about 2 lbs to get to. Again it was obvious that he was not trying to gain weight. It was at the NECC duals, so 10 teams were there. I also felt a warning would suffice, but from what was explained to me you cannot in anyway attempt to gain or loose weight once weigh-in's had started. As far as the kid, he is a senior, so he should have known better. Much like myself, I dont think that he thought about what he was doing. I don't blame the ref's for following the rules. If a coach infomed the ref's of it, I do find that to be a fairly cowardace act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I think with it being the first meet, a warning would have been okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 So if a coach sees a rule violation they should just turn a blind eye to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Eventhough the IHSAA is all about hydration it is against the rules to drink during wiegh-ins. I think many Officials would have probably not seen this at least if it was just one drink and not continual drinking, but the call wwas right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 So if a coach sees a rule violation they should just turn a blind eye to it? Thats a good question. Is it cowardly for a coach to turn in a kid on a violation that is obviously not intending to cheat in anyway, or is that coach being ethical and following the rules as written? I know I wouldn't have said anything, so does that make me unethical? Or am I being brave for wanting our kids to face the other teams best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How is a coach or ref supposed to know if the kid is trying to drink enough to qualify for a higher weight class? Without stepping on the scale no one know if he is drinking water just because or to qualify for another weight class. It is funny that the story I heard was a little different than the story you are telling. That is great that you will let things go because you are in it for the spirit of the competition, but you are doing no one any good by turning a blind eye to rules you don't like. By turning a blind eye to something like that you are setting the kid/team/coach up to get dinged later in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Sounds like the rules for a game we call, "Gotcha!" Let the referees conduct the weigh-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 So did the ref see it, or go by what the other coach said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 How is a coach or ref supposed to know if the kid is trying to drink enough to qualify for a higher weight class? Without stepping on the scale no one know if he is drinking water just because or to qualify for another weight class. It is funny that the story I heard was a little different than the story you are telling. That is great that you will let things go because you are in it for the spirit of the competition, but you are doing no one any good by turning a blind eye to rules you don't like. By turning a blind eye to something like that you are setting the kid/team/coach up to get dinged later in the season. Just curious as to what is different from my version and what you have heard happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A. I am 100% certain you know if it was a coach or ref who saw the action B. I am certain you know it was more than one drink C. Now answer my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 A. I am 100% certain you know if it was a coach or ref who saw the action B. I am certain you know it was more than one drink C. Now answer my question. I'm sorry if it came acrossed as though I was trying to say that the ref never saw him take a drink, he was seen taking a drink. I'm not attempting to hide anything here, I put the blame on myself. I saw him take a drink, and didn't think anything of it. I believe that he had more than one drink after that, sorry didn't want that the be the issue, no question on wheather or not he had a drink, and if the ref eventually saw it. From what I was told the Ref's were informed that he had a drink by another coach, I dont know if that is the case or not. Also, what was your question you wanted me to answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A. I am 100% certain you know if it was a coach or ref who saw the action B. I am certain you know it was more than one drink C. Now answer my question. Y2 has eyes and ears everywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 So if a coach sees a rule violation they should just turn a blind eye to it? I think as adults we have a pretty good understanding of right and wrong. To me, it comes down to why you are involved in this sport. I coach because I enjoy working with young people. It's my chosen profession. At the end of the day, I am going to think about the kid (whether he rode your bus or mine) to make my decision. I can honestly say that I would have a hard time running to the official and doing that. If the kid sat there and absolutely chugged water in an obvious effort to add weight after weigh-ins were started, then I would have less of a hard time. It comes back to your ability to make common sense decisions as an adult. You've made several comments lately that are less than flattering about coaches and their ethics. Makes me wonder a bit. If your stud wrestler takes a shot of water in the weigh in room (a clear violation), are you going to self-report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 My kids know not to be drinking anything while weigh-ins are going on. They never have anything in their hands during weigh-ins other than possibly a skin form. Pretty easy solution in my book. And feel free to worry all you want about my ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardsr Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Being a parent, and not a coach, looking in I have seen many that I feel are great coaches and a few that I feel that are very questionable, not that I am saying you are as I really don't know you personally. While drinking water is not a bad thing, allowing a kid to break the rules is and that is what is at stake here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 My kids know not to be drinking anything while weigh-ins are going on. They never have anything in their hands during weigh-ins other than possibly a skin form. Pretty easy solution in my book. And feel free to worry all you want about my ethics. I was just curious how deep your convictions ran. I understand your reply, but I guess I thought you'd answer the question, not dismiss it. I'm not worrying about your ethics. I think you've defended them well at every occasion. Seems to me you are a very ethical coach. My wondering was more about why certain people or organizations seem to consistently get your critique. If I'm being to critical of you, then just say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 COMMON SENSE!!! Its high school wrestling we seriously think its ethical to take a kids chance to wrestle in his senior year of conference because he had a sip of water when he was well above his weight limit??? Now this decision deserves a C'Mon MAN!!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 COMMON SENSE!!! Its high school wrestling we seriously think its ethical to take a kids chance to wrestle in his senior year of conference because he had a sip of water when he was well above his weight limit??? Now this decision deserves a C'Mon MAN!!!! Dude I want cool points back. This comment gets one from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 How is a coach or ref supposed to know if the kid is trying to drink enough to qualify for a higher weight class? Without stepping on the scale no one know if he is drinking water just because or to qualify for another weight class. It is funny that the story I heard was a little different than the story you are telling. That is great that you will let things go because you are in it for the spirit of the competition, but you are doing no one any good by turning a blind eye to rules you don't like. By turning a blind eye to something like that you are setting the kid/team/coach up to get dinged later in the season. Joe just curious as to what you heard that was different than my version of what happened? Just hoping to set the record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Joe just curious as to what you heard that was different than my version of what happened? Just hoping to set the record straight. A. I am 100% certain you know if it was a coach or ref who saw the action B. I am certain you know it was more than one drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 If it was a coach, I would hope that coach would go tell the wrestlers coach what his wrestler was doing before he went to the official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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