TheNextDynasty Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Since a lot of people have started to mention that Perry may be the best team in recent memory, I'd like to see how they would hypothetically match up with Mater Dei from 2003. This is the best team I have seen since i started following the sport in 2000. I don't know Perry's full lineup this year so someone will have to fill that in for me, but Mater Dei's looked like this- 103- Brian Bittner- State Qualifier 112- Bryan Williams- 5th place State 119- Joe Hillenbrand- SS Qualifier 125- Craig Macke- 3rd place State, lost to Angel Escobedo 130- Matt Coughlin- 2nd place State, lost to Andre Hernandez 135- Aaron Scott- 3rd place State, lost to Alex Tsirtsis 140- Joe Lehman- SS Qualifier 145- Craig Weinzapfel- State Champ 152- Dustin Nosko- State Champ 160- Sam Wildeman- State Champ 171- Blake Maurer- State Champ 189- Jason Coughlin- SS Qualifier 215- Tom Unfried- State Qualifier 285- Chaz Schwartz- Sectional Qualifier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Since a lot of people have started to mention that Perry may be the best team in recent memory, I'd like to see how they would hypothetically match up with Mater Dei from 2003. This is the best team I have seen since i started following the sport in 2000. I don't know Perry's full lineup this year so someone will have to fill that in for me, but Mater Dei's looked like this- 103- Brian Bittner- State Qualifier 112- Bryan Williams- 5th place State 119- Joe Hillenbrand- SS Qualifier 125- Craig Macke- 3rd place State, lost to Angel Escobedo 130- Matt Coughlin- 2nd place State, lost to Andre Hernandez 135- Aaron Scott- 3rd place State, lost to Alex Tsirtsis 140- Joe Lehman- SS Qualifier 145- Craig Weinzapfel- State Champ 152- Dustin Nosko- State Champ 160- Sam Wildeman- State Champ 171- Blake Maurer- State Champ 189- Jason Coughlin- SS Qualifier 215- Tom Unfried- State Qualifier 285- Chaz Schwartz- Sectional Qualifier Are these their credentials from that season or their career? Makes a huge diffrence indeed a great lineup 4-state champs, 4- state placers & 2-state qualifiers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNextDynasty Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are these their credentials from that season or their career? Makes a huge diffrence indeed a great lineup 4-state champs, 4- state placers & 2-state qualifiers... That was from that season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Had it not been for the Griffin boys MD might have had 7 state champs potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Riesen Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I do think that the 2003 Matre Dei is the best in recent memory. That being said, what Perry Meridian is doing right now is fairly comparable. I think the state on a whole is better then it has ever been. If you took those same kids and put them into the 2012 tourney I think you may have 2 champs and 5 or 6 placers. Thats a rough estimate, but I think it is fairly accurate. Thats not taking anything away from Matre Dei just putting it into perspective. For the record I think they would beat Perry by at least 15 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNextDynasty Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I do think that the 2003 Matre Dei is the best in recent memory. That being said, what Perry Meridian is doing right now is fairly comparable. I think the state on a whole is better then it has ever been. If you took those same kids and put them into the 2012 tourney I think you may have 2 champs and 5 or 6 placers. Thats a rough estimate, but I think it is fairly accurate. Thats not taking anything away from Matre Dei just putting it into perspective. For the record I think they would beat Perry by at least 15 points. I pretty much agree with everything you said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Don't know much about 2003 Mater Dei's team, but 4 state champs is insanely impressive. How close would a 2011 Perry Meridian/2009 Mishawaka meet be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The 2003 MD team for really the apex of the MD program. Given the caliber of teams they have produced that is an incredible compliment. In order to truly judge, the current powers are impressive and it is important to note that whatever team walks away with the crown will have won against a much stronger pool of talent from every corner of the state. Who is better, The ENTIRE state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think the state on a whole is better then it has ever been. If you took those same kids and put them into the 2012 tourney I think you may have 2 champs and 5 or 6 placers. Thats a rough estimate, but I think it is fairly accurate.... The wrestling season (Sorry Y2, "class of" was not the appropriate term) of 2003 is MAYBE the deepest Indiana has ever seen. There are some major names in that tournament: Tsirtis (All-American) Hernandez (All-American) Escebedo (NCAA Champ, All-American, Current International Success, Olympic Team Contender) Coughlin (All-American) Humphrey (All-American, World Team Member) Dolly (Current Success at International Level) O'Brien (Big Success in UFC) Mauer (4x state champ, had injuries not sidelined him at Ohio State.....) I am sure there are other names I missed, but saying Indiana now is better than Indiana then is highly dubious. The entire state, from the Region, to Indianapolis, to Evansville, was producing an insane amount of talent. What EMD did that year was incredible. That being said, if any team can top them, I hope it is Coach Tonte's Falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Humphrey and Escobedo graduated in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Don't know much about 2003 Mater Dei's team, but 4 state champs is insanely impressive. How close would a 2011 Perry Meridian/2009 Mishawaka meet be? What was their line-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNextDynasty Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Humphrey and Escobedo graduated in 2004. I think they graduated in 2005 with Coughlin, and Tsirtsis, Andre, and Maurer were in 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Talent is talent regardless. I don't think it is fair to compare teams. The 2003 EMD team is in the record books. The 2012 Perry Meridian Falcons are AMAZING but there is still a season of wrestling to be completed. I do think they will probably repeat as Team State Champs but I think Crown Point and EMD would politely disagree with me. Athletes are better in every state not just Indiana. Everyone is getting bigger, faster, and stronger. But if push come to shove and I had to pick EMD 2003 or Perry Meridian 2012 (both awesome teams) I am taking EMD. Four state champs and very high state placers. They had a murderers row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe I'm in the minority, but a good wrestler is a good wrestler. I think a lot of wrestlers would be successful in any era. Maybe Indiana is producing a lot more studs than we used to, but that doesn't diminish the accomplisments over past wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckert Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Out of all of those 2003 studs MD had, how many wrestled in college? I know Maurer went to Ohio State and Caughlin went to Indiana, but what about the rest? I know it takes a special caliber of a person to take on college and wrestling. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I would compare them but someone might criticize me for comparing apples to oranges or watermelon to cantelope or zucchini to cucumbers!! But that never stops the dude so I am going to anyway.... obviously there are different weight classes this year than 2003 so that throws the Duder a problem.... 106: Bittner was tough, but just don't think he would hang with Cottey 3 for perry 113: Again James is too fast even for the Mater Dei Mojo 120: If Hildebrand was at 120 have to go again with perry, but whos to say Macke would not cut down? 126: If Macke is at 126 have to go with him on this one unless McKinley is down to this weight... then who knows? 132: Coughlin for sure... I know I know state champ in 11, but Coughlin was National champ sorry southsiders 138: Aaron Scott lost to Angel right? Is Bova an Angel No way, but could pull it out.. this would be a barn burner 145: This actually helps MD takes one of their non state qualifiers out of line up and keeps a state champ in... I like the McClug kid but he is no Weinzapafel 152: Again State Champ for MD wow sorry Falcons 160: WHEW!! This would be a great match up... I have seen Captain Kirk really grow up and he is on a mission. He would keep it close and win I believe 5-2. Two takedowns one escape vs. two escapes. 170: Sorry Massengale, I think you have great skill, but NOBODY ever beat Mauer in high school in this state. 182: Jason Coughlin I think would have cut down here, not 100% certain. He was a wild card. If he was on his A game could've beat most people, unfortuatley he wasn't on his A game enough tough call but I think PM in this one, close match and then he catches MD in head lock for the pin 195: If memory serves me correctly I think MD had a decent 215 behind Unfried and I believe Goebel would have motivated him to cut down to 195, would've help MD Unfried might have cut down also either way MD 220: Toss up match IMO... but Unfried was in great shape and wins in OT 285: Pin by Perry. Final Score MD 30- Perry 25... Can't believe my first thoughts were against one of my favorite teams in the state. I may have to ponder this for a while lots of information in Duder's head right now!! The Dude Abides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I would compare them but someone might criticize me for comparing apples to oranges or watermelon to cantelope or zucchini to cucumbers!! But that never stops the dude so I am going to anyway.... obviously there are different weight classes this year than 2003 so that throws the Duder a problem.... 106: Bittner was tough, but just don't think he would hang with Cottey 3 for perry 113: Again James is too fast even for the Mater Dei Mojo 120: If Hildebrand was at 120 have to go again with perry, but whos to say Macke would not cut down? 126: If Macke is at 126 have to go with him on this one unless McKinley is down to this weight... then who knows? 132: Coughlin for sure... I know I know state champ in 11, but Coughlin was National champ sorry southsiders 138: Aaron Scott lost to Angel right? Is Bova an Angel No way, but could pull it out.. this would be a barn burner 145: This actually helps MD takes one of their non state qualifiers out of line up and keeps a state champ in... I like the McClug kid but he is no Weinzapafel 152: Again State Champ for MD wow sorry Falcons 160: WHEW!! This would be a great match up... I have seen Captain Kirk really grow up and he is on a mission. He would keep it close and win I believe 5-2. Two takedowns one escape vs. two escapes. 170: Sorry Massengale, I think you have great skill, but NOBODY ever beat Mauer in high school in this state. 182: Jason Coughlin I think would have cut down here, not 100% certain. He was a wild card. If he was on his A game could've beat most people, unfortuatley he wasn't on his A game enough tough call but I think PM in this one, close match and then he catches MD in head lock for the pin 195: If memory serves me correctly I think MD had a decent 215 behind Unfried and I believe Goebel would have motivated him to cut down to 195, would've help MD Unfried might have cut down also either way MD 220: Toss up match IMO... but Unfried was in great shape and wins in OT 285: Pin by Perry. Final Score MD 30- Perry 25... Can't believe my first thoughts were against one of my favorite teams in the state. I may have to ponder this for a while lots of information in Duder's head right now!! The Dude Abides 126, people forget how good Macke was. The guy made a t lest the semi-finals every year. if not for Escobedo, he's likely a 2x champ. 132 - Coughlin by a large margin 138 - Scott was good, he gets the win here 145 - If not for Tsirtsis, Weinzapfel is a 3x champ. Let's not forget that he but Tsirtsis on his back in that semi-final match they had. 152 - Nosko, maybe by pin 160 - Really good match. Wildeman was a brute. He abused Jimmy Schultz in the semi's that year. Completely manhandled him. 170 - nobody beats Maurer. He did lose one match in Indiana in his career. He lost early in his soph year to Cooper from Bloom. S. Perry doesn't win a match in this stretch. MD probably picks up 2 more wins in the other 7 match ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCHawks149 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I wrestled against that 2003 materdei team and it wouldnt be close hate to say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 My mistake was thinking Mauer lost to an out of state kid, how could I forget about that controversial match with Cooper. Must have been to worried about the amphibias rodent!! I didn't forget how good Macke was... said I would give it to him and I did. He was a STUD!!! I gave Nosko a major not sure if he could work a fall here, but that is just like my opinion man. - Agreed Wildeman was a brute, I think Johnson could keep it close, he would work the edge not to give up and big takedowns and score when he had the opportunity. Again, this is a hypothetical something to generate talk on a message board. no disrepect to either, man this one would be fun to watch IMO!!! Lot of ins and outs and what have yous on this one. Fun to think about. congrats to both programs, I would think most coaches aspire to put together line ups like these. Donte pins yet again that is just my opinion man!! The Dude Abides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The 2003 Mater Dei team was a special team - great kids, great attitudes...that being said...Perry looks to have a great team this year, and I am looking forward to seeing what they do throughout the season...but the title of this thread "Hypothetically" is just that...there is still a LOT of wrestling to do, and as we all know, anything can happen during the course of a season. I'd much rather know if Perry can put up better numbers this year with their team than MD did in 2003...if it all plays out the way it can, should be one hell of a state tourney series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNextDynasty Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Out of all of those 2003 studs MD had, how many wrestled in college? I know Maurer went to Ohio State and Caughlin went to Indiana, but what about the rest? I know it takes a special caliber of a person to take on college and wrestling. Just curious. In addition to those two, Craig Weinzapfel wrestled at Purdue for a year or two until he decided to focus on his studies. Bittner and Hillenbrand wrestled for University of Southern Indiana's club team. Both were national qualifiers, Bittner making it to the the Round of 12 and Hillenbrand placed 8th earning All-American status. It's also interesting to note that the new weight classes would have been a good fit for that '03 team. They had Dustin Beal who was a returning state qualifier and he ended up quiting the team because of a dispute with Coach Goebel, because he wanted to wrestle 215 and Coach Goebel wanted him to cut to 189. So, adding the 195 weight class would have been perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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