WaltHarris Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It concerns me when a match is held up for one single coach, to the detriment of all others. I've seen this occur at Folkstyle State and local tournaments. Yes, it stinks as a coach when we have two kids wrestling at the same time on different mats. However, you must make a choice. Asking all the wrestlers, parents, coaches, officials and table help on mat #3 to wait until your first wrestler finishes on mat #8 so you can come to the other side of the gym and coach a second wrestler is not fair. The selfishness alone that it would even take to make such a request is beyond arrogant entitlement. I would like to respectfully request the iswa inform table help and officials to deny any such request in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It concerns me when a match is held up for one single coach, to the detriment of all others. I've seen this occur at Folkstyle State and local tournaments. Yes, it stinks as a coach when we have two kids wrestling at the same time on different mats. However, you must make a choice. Asking all the wrestlers, parents, coaches, officials and table help on mat #3 to wait until your first wrestler finishes on mat #8 so you can come to the other side of the gym and coach a second wrestler is not fair. The selfishness alone that it would even take to make such a request is beyond arrogant entitlement. I would like to respectfully request the iswa inform table help and officials to deny any such request in the future. So are you just suggesting this for high school age kids, or also the little ones too? Cause the younger ones must have a coach present. Some kids don't have the option of having multiple coaches like some do. So if a kid wants his coach there, then the kid should have the chance to have his coach there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It concerns me when a match is held up for one single coach, to the detriment of all others. I've seen this occur at Folkstyle State and local tournaments. Yes, it stinks as a coach when we have two kids wrestling at the same time on different mats. However, you must make a choice. Asking all the wrestlers, parents, coaches, officials and table help on mat #3 to wait until your first wrestler finishes on mat #8 so you can come to the other side of the gym and coach a second wrestler is not fair. The selfishness alone that it would even take to make such a request is beyond arrogant entitlement. I would like to respectfully request the iswa inform table help and officials to deny any such request in the future. Disagree, When you have a club that has 50 or so wrestlers with 5 or 6 coaches. It is very hard to keep up with everyone if the kid feels he needs a coach he should be allowed to wait on one. Alot of these kids need a coach in there corner. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Just move the match back and continue wrestling on the mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I think that it's common courtesy, alot of the teams will bring 20-30 wrestlers to a tournament like folkstyle state and at times may have 4-5 kids going at the same or nearly the same time. I wouldn't want kids or parents being turned off by having to wrestle without support and I wouldn't want coaches to have to choose on number of kids to bring or which kids need a coach at a given time. The older kids may not be as big of an issue but schoolkids on down should have a coach present if they desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Just move the match back and continue wrestling on the mat. This is an excellent and reasonable suggestion. Regretfully, when I have suggested moving back a match, several opposing coaches have been indignant. Most often the opposing coach will say, "Hey, I only have a period and a half left on mat #3. I will be at mat #9 in just a few minutes and don't want to wait when I get there." Think about the selfishness of that statement. Essentially, 30 people must wait so I don't have to wait when I come over to this mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 I would suggest that some folks have a "coaching numbers" problem and not a "tournament organizer" problem. A challenge all tournament organizers face is efficiency. They must keep a tournament moving at a good clip. Slowing down a whole tournament for one coach/wrestler is not reasonable. If a club needs more coaches, then recruit more people to be coaches. I have been a part of several clubs over the years and they have always effectively recruited new coaches. A lot people like "coaching" at a club, but they hate "running" the club (i.e., recruiting coaches, officials, table help, finances). My suggestion is to improve the "running" of your club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG-Coach Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Unless your team (or club) as as many coaches at the tournament as there are wrestling surfaces, you are goign to have to wait on coaches to get to the mat, which was 18 this past weekend correct? I dare you to find a club at Huntington this past weekend that had 18 coaches there that were Copper Certified. Also, even if you have only two kids at a tournament, inevitably they are going ot wrestle at the same time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 CG-Coach I agreee 100% I was there with only 3 kids and missed one kid twice. The thing i noticed the most Saturday was how many kids that were not coached . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It concerns me when a match is held up for one single coach, to the detriment of all others. I've seen this occur at Folkstyle State and local tournaments. Yes, it stinks as a coach when we have two kids wrestling at the same time on different mats. However, you must make a choice. Asking all the wrestlers, parents, coaches, officials and table help on mat #3 to wait until your first wrestler finishes on mat #8 so you can come to the other side of the gym and coach a second wrestler is not fair. The selfishness alone that it would even take to make such a request is beyond arrogant entitlement. I would like to respectfully request the iswa inform table help and officials to deny any such request in the future. I am having trouble determining who is more selfish. The kid who wants his coach or the person standing behind the table telling the kid to wrestle without his coach. What is best for the wrestler and for wrestling is to have a coach there. So you have to wait a little bit. Big deal. There is no way you have something better to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinwrestlersmom Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Ever since my kids started wrestling we have been told NEVER wrestle without a coach. I hope you are never behind us at a tourney because thats exactly what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 If a kid has no coach, he probably isnt going to learn much. If he isn't learning, what is the point of competing? Move the match back as a courtesy to the KID not the coach. If the coach doesn't want to wait then too bad, he can wait on the mat until his kid's match comes back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerwrestler Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Uhhhh, We do this for the kids right? I see no problem with waiting for a coach to be at matside. I have two son's and have coached our club for many years. I want to be at matside for MY kids and the other wrestlers as well. I vote to take a little extra time to allow ALL kids to have a coach in their corner. Additionally, lets remember that often times the kids coaches are actually helping out at the tourney by doing table help, pairings, concessions, and officiating. I would be very upset if I were helping out at a tourney and the table at my son's match would not wait for me to finish up my volunteer work before my son's hit the mat. Just my $.02 formerwrestler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Uhhhh, We do this for the kids right? I see no problem with waiting for a coach to be at matside. I have two son's and have coached our club for many years. I want to be at matside for MY kids and the other wrestlers as well. I vote to take a little extra time to allow ALL kids to have a coach in their corner. Additionally, lets remember that often times the kids coaches are actually helping out at the tourney by doing table help, pairings, concessions, and officiating. I would be very upset if I were helping out at a tourney and the table at my son's match would not wait for me to finish up my volunteer work before my son's hit the mat. Just my $.02 formerwrestler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB1212 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 It concerns me when a match is held up for one single coach, to the detriment of all others. I've seen this occur at Folkstyle State and local tournaments. Yes, it stinks as a coach when we have two kids wrestling at the same time on different mats. However, you must make a choice. Asking all the wrestlers, parents, coaches, officials and table help on mat #3 to wait until your first wrestler finishes on mat #8 so you can come to the other side of the gym and coach a second wrestler is not fair. The selfishness alone that it would even take to make such a request is beyond arrogant entitlement. I would like to respectfully request the iswa inform table help and officials to deny any such request in the future. I couldn't disagree more. If my 7 year old's coach isnt around we are asking to be skipped. At state they did that and all involved were happy to do so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 This is a tough decision to make. I agree that it is far to the kid waiting for the coach, but what about the kid that has his coach there, but there is another match being held up for this coach waiting for the other kid's coach. Where do we draw the line. Everyone likes a smooth running tournament, and waiting on coaches can be a big detriment to that happening. I think this is where the parent needs to step up and take responsability. Most local tournament do not require a "copper certified coach", so in my opinion, if there is an adult matside let's wrestle. I can see holding up a match if the kid has absolutely nobody in his corner, but lets face it, even at state there were plenty of parents matside yelling out instructions. It does not take much to take that "copper certification" test but about $30 in fees which is pretty much what that "copper certification" is about. $$$$$. So, if there is absolutely nobody around then I can agree with skipping a match, but if there is an adult or parent around, then I see no reason why this match so not go on as scheduled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinwrestlersmom Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 This is a tough decision to make. I agree that it is far to the kid waiting for the coach, but what about the kid that has his coach there, but there is another match being held up for this coach waiting for the other kid's coach. Where do we draw the line. Everyone likes a smooth running tournament, and waiting on coaches can be a big detriment to that happening. I think this is where the parent needs to step up and take responsability. Most local tournament do not require a "copper certified coach", so in my opinion, if there is an adult matside let's wrestle. I can see holding up a match if the kid has absolutely nobody in his corner, but lets face it, even at state there were plenty of parents matside yelling out instructions. It does not take much to take that "copper certification" test but about $30 in fees which is pretty much what that "copper certification" is about. $$$$$. So, if there is absolutely nobody around then I can agree with skipping a match, but if there is an adult or parent around, then I see no reason why this match so not go on as scheduled. Not EVERY adult matside is knowledgeable(or tempered is that a word?) enough to coach.My kids have outgrown my knowledge of wrestling along time ago. I'm pretty sure if his coach isn't there and they MAKE him wrestle without one , me saying "get out of that " isn't going to help . : And don't even tell me that I just need to learn more ,I go to every practice and every meet,but I just can't retain it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I understand wanting to have your coach around, but I see where Mr. Harris is coming from. You are right having a coach there can make a big difference. I personally do not like coaching my own child even though I am more than capable of doing it. I would prefer someone else to do it, but if nobody is around I will do what needs to be done. I think the discussion is weather or not it is fair to hold up matches because a child does not have a coach. I agian think if there is nobody in ihis corner at all, then I don't have a problem with holding it up. If there is an adult in his corner then i do not see why the match should not go on. Is you yelling "get out of that" gonna be as effective as someone more knowledgeable screaming specifically what to do. Maybe not, but I have heard "get out of that" from plenty of copper certified oaches as well. Heck, CIA is a big thing now, are you saying that every match should be held up til a CIA coach gets there. They have quite a few kids from my understanding and I am sure they dont get to every kid who has come thru their academy. I am sure they would like to, but it is more than likely humanly impossible for them to do it. I guess the point I am trying to make is that it is nice to have a coach, depeding on how you define it, in your corner, but there will be times when you will not have "the " coach that you want in your corner. When that happens IMO you have to deal with it and no tournament should be delayed because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Kids sb and below wait for a coach no matter what!! Cadets and above find a team mate, parent, coach and have them in your corner. That is that you can have the match held for 3 calls that gives you about 10 minutes to find one of those. Or come look for me ;D I have been in many kids corners that I have known and not been in our club IT IS ALL ABOUT THE KIDS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 On more than one occasion during state I've stepped in and coached a really young kid I didn't know who didn't have a coach that just happened to be up right after my guy. It's usually the same story. The kids looks lost, confused, and worried. The mom is yelling from behind the barrier to try and help him, but she really can't. The people around us just want to get started after a long wait to wrestle. Just having a person there to guide them causes the kid to change from worried to ready to wrestle and that is enough to make a big difference in their preformance. Becuase of that I would hope any coach in a similar situation (with time) would also step up and help a young kid out if the parent was needing it from behind the barrier. To me I agree it would be best the younger kids if you could at least try and wait on a coach for a match or two before having the kid wrestle without one. At the young ages some of these kids are so single minded and stuck on routine that not having a coach show up is more than enough to have them not want to wrestle. I don't believe you should keep waiting forever, but it would be nice to hold off a few matched and get someone to try and locate a coach for that age. In a perfect world I would love to see a way the ISWA would allow one parent/chaperone to be allowed to enter the gate and go matside at state with each novice or younger wrestler with or without a coaches card. I think the coaches card rule was originally designed to try and get only responsible adults at matside to aviod problem. However, that obviously is not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 All Schoolboy and younger kids should tell the table and referee that they cannot wrestle without the coach present. If this means that the match needs to be pushed back until the coach gets to the mat or the mat must be held up until the coach gets there, then so be it. It is very important to the development of young wrestlers to have a coach in thier corner during thier matches. Sorry if you have to wait a little bit, but get over it. The development of our young wrestlers is much more important than someone having to wait an extra couple of minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 There is no confusion, like the confusion of a simple mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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