Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If this generation divides wrestling into 3 classes, the next will want 6, and the next will want 12 ? I guess at some point we could just make everyone a State Champion just for participating? Now I realize that this is a ridiculous argument, but change always brings with it unintended consequences. The thing that I have always loved about wrestling is that unlike most other sports ?you? are rewarded for ?your? hard work up to the limits of ?your? resolve and ?your? ability. When you reach those limits you reach the limits of your personal success. Why is it that so many people want to turn wrestling into a sport much like others where the bar is lowered to accommodate those who lack resolve or who have attained the limit of their ability? People today are too quick to blame others for their shortfalls and too slow to determine to improve their situation through hard work. We are where we are because of decisions that we have made and not because we are being treated unfairly. If programs are suffering it is because coaches, administrators, parents, and athletes made choices that looked good at the time but had unintended consequences. If programs are excelling it is because coaches, administrators, parents, and athletes made good decisions that helped them get to where they are. In life there are always those who have an easier path just because of circumstances. There are also those who have to struggle for everything. We are who we are because of what we have had to overcome and not because of what we have been given. So I will translate, life isn't fair get over it. I think that should be the motto for all big schools now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3390 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 No, life isn't fair overcome it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yes the graduation rates are different. If had gone to mater dei (thank god I didn't) my parents would have killed me to be paying that much and flunked. But you avoided the argument. So they are private. But their kids play 2-3 sports. Are thy forced to wrestle no. They just have a lot of family that wrestles. You look at the rosters there are sims, boots, weinzapfels, goebels everywhere. The kids want to wrestle. They weren't recruited ( I hope not haha jk). My junior year they had a full varsity and two full jv squads. second of all having a multisport school can help. I played football and my coach told two of my friends who were linemen if they wanted to play varsity they should wrestle because it will make them more athletic and coordinated. Itts true. Better tackling and coordination. They did it. We are a 5A school and our coach didn't care if they were missing offseason workouts. He knew they would be better off. Try getting your schools football coach on board. Help fill those bigger weights. Coaches work together in the offseason. I just don't think classing individual is the answer. No reason for anyone to be I'm ature about anything. No political agenda. No I win you lose. Just this is myopinion based on these facts/ views. If I want my kid to be the best possible wrestler in the state he will need to wrestle as close to year round as possible. If you have a top kid that only wrestles from November until February, then he is not going to be as good as a kid equal to him that wrestles 10 months out of the year. That kid that wrestles only four months out of the year will have to be an extraordinary athlete to overcome someone that wrestles 2.5x more than he does. Even if a small school has a kid willing to wrestle 10 months of the year, he still needs a quality practice partner to do so too. Add to that a coach that can unlock the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 No life isn't fair overcome it! So lets have three weight classes 140, 180 and unlimited. Sound good to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 busco: Class supporters have always conceded that if the goal is to find the best kid, then stay classless. That is not close-minded. Class supporters argue for classes because they feel that the goal of high school athletics should include more than just finding out who is the best. They feel that these goals could be best met by doing what dozens of other states have already done, have class sports so kids can compete on an as equal a level as possible, just like their peers in other sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3390 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I don't favor that, but small schools should be able to fill a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I don't favor that, but small schools should be able to fill a roster. Why not? Under our current system of 14 classes, we don't know who the true best in the state is. Does anyone honestly think Cody Phillips can beat Adam Chalfant? Did Cody Phillips celebrate his championship any less because he was the smallest champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3390 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 You always take the discussion to the ridiculous side. Tap out, uncle, I give, you win, so let?s class the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Just bringing a simple comparison. You want a true champion, yet we don't get one in this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If I want my kid to be the best possible wrestler in the state he will need to wrestle as close to year round as possible. If you have a top kid that only wrestles from November until February, then he is not going to be as good as a kid equal to him that wrestles 10 months out of the year. That kid that wrestles only four months out of the year will have to be an extraordinary athlete to overcome someone that wrestles 2.5x more than he does. Even if a small school has a kid willing to wrestle 10 months of the year, he still needs a quality practice partner to do so too. Add to that a coach that can unlock the room. This statement is as close as you can get to the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 What exactly does or would bringing class wrestling for both individual and team do for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hungus, I wasn't trying to offend with the close-minded comment, hell I think both sides are close minded on the issue. I like to throw some ideas out there sometimes and it seems that they dont get looked at as legitiment arguments, which I feel that they are, but instead as a point to be attacked for having an opposite thought. I think a lot of people feel that way on the site, and it is what it is not a big deal. We will have to agree to disagree I guess. Anyhow ive wanted to ask you, is the Hungus name a Neil Young moniker, or just a random coiniciedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hungus, I wasn't trying to offend with the close-minded comment, hell I think both sides are close minded on the issue. I like to throw some ideas out there sometimes and it seems that they dont get looked at as legitiment arguments, which I feel that they are, but instead as a point to be attacked for having an opposite thought. I think a lot of people feel that way on the site, and it is what it is not a big deal. We will have to agree to disagree I guess. Anyhow ive wanted to ask you, is the Hungus name a Neil Young moniker, or just a random coiniciedence. I always thought it was from the Big Lebowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Try it being his real name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I know a lot of people who know him, according to them its not his real name. I wont unmask him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 So we've got the real star of "Logjammin" here? The Dude abides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Are you telling me that if a kid wins small state running like say a 11.2 100, and the slowest time for a qualifrer in the big class is like 11.3 that the kid "winning" the small state had really accomplished what the others had? The 11.2 kid from a small school is more likely to be playing 3 sports, have no indoor facility, have no event coach, no strength coach, track coach might be coaching a winter sport, track program is more likely not to run indoor events, and he would have far fewer teammates that could push him in practice. Because of these reasons, yes, he should stand proud of being the fastest kid in his class. The same logic applies to Busco rightfully being proud of their CLASSED regional football title even though they would be blown out by Snider or Dwenger every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Are you telling me that if a kid wins small state running like say a 11.2 100, and the slowest time for a qualifrer in the big class is like 11.3 that the kid "winning" the small state had really accomplished what the others had? The 11.2 kid from a small school is more likely to be playing 3 sports, have no indoor facility, have no event coach, no strength coach, track coach might be coaching a winter sport, track program is more likely not to run indoor events, and he would have far fewer teammates that could push him in practice. Because of these reasons, yes, he should stand proud of being the fastest kid in his class. The same logic applies to Busco rightfully being proud of their CLASSED regional football title even though they would be blown out by Snider or Dwenger every year. Amen, it's all about doing the best with what's available. It's the same reason I know I'll never compete with Carmel or Zionsville in the ACS Chemistry competition. More kids to choose from and more resources will lead to more success. We were darn proud of getting 5th and the highest score of a school with under 2,000 students. Should I tell my kids they're idiots because they didn't win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hungus, I wasn't trying to offend with the close-minded comment, hell I think both sides are close minded on the issue. I like to throw some ideas out there sometimes and it seems that they dont get looked at as legitiment arguments, which I feel that they are, but instead as a point to be attacked for having an opposite thought. I think a lot of people feel that way on the site, and it is what it is not a big deal. We will have to agree to disagree I guess. Anyhow ive wanted to ask you, is the Hungus name a Neil Young moniker, or just a random coiniciedence. No offense taken. Those that post reasonably usually get reasonable responses. (Such as yourself). There are a few that post that get taken to task but not all one class supporters get attacked by any means. Name is from Big Lebowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Because of these reasons, yes, he should stand proud of being the fastest kid in his class. The same logic applies to Busco rightfully being proud of their CLASSED regional football title even though they would be blown out by Snider or Dwenger every year. Individual results and team results are very different. I think many of the "classless" folks would be in favor of a classed team tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Amen, it's all about doing the best with what's available. It's the same reason I know I'll never compete with Carmel or Zionsville in the ACS Chemistry competition. More kids to choose from and more resources will lead to more success. We were darn proud of getting 5th and the highest score of a school with under 2,000 students. Should I tell my kids they're idiots because they didn't win? Aren't all the academic state finals classed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LpBrown90 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Just like all those Ohio, Michigan and Illinois kids are disgraced by their accomplishments. Go find someone from a classed state and ask them what they placed in their state tournament. See if they mention what class it was. A class system in an Individual sport is pointless. I live and coach in Michigan now, and you are right not to many kids will mention what class they are, but everyone I talk too wishes there class system was more like Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Aren't all the academic state finals classed? Academic bowl yes, but not the American Chemical Society exam. It's based on location, so central Indiana has over 150 schools, mostly very large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hungus, I said before that I am for the team part being classed, it takes more than one person, it is a team, smaller schools would be at a disadvantage in football and are in wrestling as a TEAM. In the track argument I put forth it shows from times that the kid is legitly not the best. Its the same here, and I guess we will just disagree on this but the point of a tournament and competition in many ways is to find the best, if not why have a state tournament or any tournament at all? Boot- same as I just said to Hungus, your kids are not dumb, they are just not as good. Thats what we find out from competition. Other lessons are learned, but in the end you compete to find out who the best is, it is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I understand the point in a tournament is to find the best, but is that the goal of high school athletics? If not, then the tournament at the end of the year should reflect the goals that have been put forward. If the IHSAA (and all those who provide guidance; coaches, officials, etc.) has the ultimate goal to determine who are state's best wrestlers are, then one class is the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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