Financial CUTS for schools, WRESTLING or other sports being cut?

[ENoblewrestling]

One of the proposals from the state as a possibility to save money for cash strapped schools is to cut after school activities and even sports.  Im just curious if anyone has heard or knows of any wrestling, or other atheletic programs that may be cut around the state.

Even with this being a proposal I have yet to hear of any schools or programs that are getting dropped and I pray that this doesn't happen.  It would truelly be a tragedy for those students who loose the oppurtunity in any sport, or organization.

A friend of mine recently told me of an article in the Indy Star in which a former Indiana Basketball coach conveys his feelings that in ten years high school atheletics will be obsolete, and replaced mainly by club sports.  That is an even scarier scenario in my opinion.  I know that in our state, and in our sport the school programs are much stronger than the club ones, if wrestling went to an almost completly club sport, I think it would kill our sport. 

In sports like basketball, and baseball many coaches feel that the club (AAU, Summer baseball) sports are much better, and Atheletes recieve better competion, with less restricitons. 

Another fear that I have is for the non-"superstar" athelete, who I feel gets lost in club atheletics.

 

What do you guys think.

[theckman]

Our corp. (MSD of Mt. Vernon (the one down by Evansville)) has to cut a million dollars from its budget for next year.  We have to cut another three million (I believe) the next year.  Teachers and others haven't received a raise (other than increments) in three years and aren't likely to receive one anytime soon.  We're going to close one elementary school, RIF some very fine teachers, and a myriad of other cost cutting measures for next year.  We've been told everything and anything is on the table.  It wouldn't surprise me to see some athletic programs cut.

[emnm5]

Great question. Not sure what my thoughts are. I have not heard of any schools that plan on cutting wrestling....although I did hear of one small 2a school cutting soccer because of budget issues.

 

My personal opinion is that High Schools will never get out of the sports business because it's a community builder. What I do think will happen is the Schools will start to specialize in certain sports and do away with others. So, you might go to school A for wrestling or if your really into soccer you might go to school B. Club and School will work together. Think of Mishawaka and you think of wrestling. You get the picture. I also think the battle lines are being drawn now. So better start supporting your school now(in wrestling) or it could be gone in 10 years.

 

I do think it will make for better wrestling matches. There's no better show than the HS wrestling state finals or a really good dual meet. As for the "non superstar" it will become tougher for them as varsity spots will be fewer. The solution for them is more of a rec league or church league.

 

Again, just an opinion.

[redriderbbs]

Maybe the school systems should stop paying the school board members and make it a volunteer position.

[NLCards]

Yeah -- I bet those guys are making a fortune.

[Y2CJ41]

You could see lots of small schools drop wrestling because they aren't successful in it.

[Insanoflex]

Our school system has already cut funding for all elementary athletics (including wrestling), and like most school corporations, more belt-tightening is coming.  Our (the wrestling staff) biggest fear is that the middle school athletic budget will fall victim, effectively neutering any chance of developing competitive wrestling teams in the near future.

[decbell1]

Even though it would change our little world on this board drastically, I do think there is some merit to leaving athletics out of the school environment. Plenty of other countries use club sports instead of school sports. I know there are a lot of positives to the setup that we have, but in some cases, schools are misusing the resources that they have and not focusing on their most important goal. I don't know what the solution is to our current budget problems, but I know it's NOT cutting teachers and making class sizes bigger.

[MattM]

In sports for the most part you willbe seeing a few things start to happen.

1. Fewer games/meets  at all levels

2. Fewer paid asst. coaches at all levels

3. Taking the mini-bus places over large bus because of driver fees and cost of fuel (thus JV doesn't get much mat time)

5.  Possible pay-to-play at all levels

 

I'm not seeing sports programs being dropped unless the coorporation is in very bad shape and don't want to look where else they could save some cash.

[piratelooksat30]

MattM hit the nail on the head. Those are going to be the big changes in the coming years for the majority of schools. However, smaller schools in rural areas might cut some programs. I know of the article from the Indystar that was mentioned in an earlier post. The article spoke of a movement to have all volunteer coaches. I really don't see that a realistic. No one would be a head coach at the varsity level for free. Well, i guess some would, but the turn over would be tremendous. I realize that none of us coaches do this for the money, and some would say coaches should do it for the "real love of the game". However, as some one on the gridiron stated, we have real mortages and real bills to pay. Just my opinions

[m25443]

 

5.  Possible pay-to-play at all levels

 

 

Some High School activities are already pay-to-play, such as Marching Band (over $1000 per person this year).  Much of that is offset by fund-raisers, but they are in continuous fund-raiser mode (Cheese, Candy, discount cards, candles, pizza, car washes, auctions, run the concession stands at baseball/basketball/JV sports, etc. ).

 

Then to compete in the Winter Guard (aka flags/rifles) competitions it is another $400 - $600 per kid.

 

The trend has been more $$$s required from parents, kids, and fund-raisers every year.

[Insanoflex]

5.  Possible pay-to-play at all levels

 

 

This would preclude kids from lower socio-economic areas and families from participating.  A great deal of work goes into fundraising, and I have to believe most kids would think if they have to work then they'll get a paycheck for themselves rather than fund a group.  I can definitely see the numbers of participants declining if this comes to pass. 

[Boot]

Food for thought, the ISTA (Indiana State Teacher's Association) gave Tony Bennett and Mitch Daniels a way to save more money than they needed to without cutting school funding or funding for salaries and activities and they were turned down. One of the larger areas is a provision which property taxes (used for things like education) are taken and used to give a tax credit to people who send their kids to private schools, essentially taking money away from those of us who need the money for our kids to go to school and give it to those who have enough money to send their kid to a private school. More info: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20101190389

[decbell1]

Food for thought, the ISTA (Indiana State Teacher's Association) gave Tony Bennett and Mitch Daniels a way to save more money than they needed to without cutting school funding or funding for salaries and activities and they were turned down. /article?AID=20101190389[/url]

 

Wouldn't it be funny if Tony Bennett actually listened to people and/or teachers that actually work in school buildings to do his job rather than being a puppet for Mitch Daniels?

[Regionrat1]

Im sure dare are some smart wraslin eficandos out here but isn't the real problem is how property taxes are collected. We had a deep discussion at work da otter day. The problem lays something to do with that school have to borrow money pay interests because the tax dollars aren't collect in time or how they are collected. It seems some banks make out big time / and we loose teacher, coaches, programs lose jobs.

 

 

[Boot]

Im sure dare are some smart wraslin eficandos out here but isn't the real problem is how property taxes are collected. We had a deep discussion at work da otter day. The problem lays something to do with that school have to borrow money pay interests because the tax dollars aren't collect in time or how they are collected. It seems some banks make out big time / and we loose teacher, coaches, programs lose jobs.

 

 

A lot of the problem is all these property tax decreases, and even not making certain areas pay proerty taxes to drive growth. Well when you have a lot of people coming in and not paying more in you get very underfunded schools.  There are also areas where the property values are so low, or people just aren't paying, so you lose money there too. Some sales tax and lottery money used to go to schools, but that slowly got taken away too. Nearly 1,000 teachers were laid off, 400 in IPS alone, because of all these cuts they've been making. Teaching is rough enough as is, but start making the classes bigger and taking away funding and there are going to be a lot of shortages. I paid attention to how much time I spend working and it turns out as a 2nd year teaching I'm making less than minumum wage, and our school has a well above average pay scale. There's my 10 cents I guess.

[decbell1]

I was under $4/hr last year in my first year of teaching.

 

What does it say about our educational system when we put our full-time teachers (with bachelors degrees) on welfare.

[Boot]

There's a reason so many of us have to get summer jobs. My dad sold cars and worked construction in the summer. Thankfully my wife is an accountant (and former Bellmont Squaw, but I still love her) so I can take classes in the summer rather than work another full time job.

[KarlHungus]

and all third graders are supposed to be held back until they can read.  Shouldn't cost anymore money, 3rd grade teachers already are getting paid to teach kids to read.  I'm trying to teach about covalent and ionic bonds to 8th graders and 15-20% are reading at 4th grade or lower.  Cue the violin please.

[Boot]

and all third graders are supposed to be held back until they can read.  Shouldn't cost anymore money, 3rd grade teachers already are getting paid to teach kids to read.  I'm trying to teach about covalent and ionic bonds to 8th graders and 15-20% are reading at 4th grade or lower.  Cue the violin please.

 

Amen! I teach Chemistry and it gets harder for the kids who struggle with basic math and reading comprehension. So of course that will improve by cutting funding everywhere, except Hamilton County, who saw a funding boost last year while everyone else was losing hundreds of thousands to millions.

[decbell1]

and all third graders are supposed to be held back until they can read.  Shouldn't cost anymore money, 3rd grade teachers already are getting paid to teach kids to read.  I'm trying to teach about covalent and ionic bonds to 8th graders and 15-20% are reading at 4th grade or lower.  Cue the violin please.

 

I think the extra cost comes in when you have to hold (appx.) 16,000 3rd graders back statewide. While not only creating a logistical problem because of a huge drop in 4th grade enrollment and a subsequent increase in 3rd grade enrollment, it is going to mean that 16,000 kids are in school one year longer, which would eventually equate to needing more teachers.

 

Obviously, I think the figure that was thrown out (20% statewide are failing), would slowly drop, and it would not be as drastic as it would be......next year for example.

 

That being said, I do know a lot of elementary education graduates looking for a job, so maybe it would at least help them.

[Boot]

I think the extra cost comes in when you have to hold (appx.) 16,000 3rd graders back statewide. While not only creating a logistical problem because of a huge drop in 4th grade enrollment and a subsequent increase in 3rd grade enrollment, it is going to mean that 16,000 kids are in school one year longer, which would eventually equate to needing more teachers.

 

Obviously, I think the figure that was thrown out (20% statewide are failing), would slowly drop, and it would not be as drastic as it would be......next year for example.

 

That being said, I do know a lot of elementary education graduates looking for a job, so maybe it would at least help them.

 

The solution would almost certainly be to lower the standard of what "reading at grade level" means, just like they did with every other subject. While I realize that increased funding isn't a 100% guaranteed fix, it's a start, but there has to be support from parents too.

[KarlHungus]

decbell, I was being sarcastic when I said it shouldn't cost anymore money.  That was the party line from the gov's office.

[NECC]

The average school board member makes around 100 dollars a month to be a sbm.  It basically IS a voluntary position.  Just an elected one.  It's the superintendents that make the big bucks.  One proposal on the table is to consolidate superintendents to possibly one per county instead of one per school system.  I'm never in favor of someone losing their job, but this proposal might just make sense........

[Smooth34]

Food for thought, the ISTA (Indiana State Teacher's Association) gave Tony Bennett and Mitch Daniels a way to save more money than they needed to without cutting school funding or funding for salaries and activties and they were turned down. One of the larger areas is a provision which property taxes (used for things like education) are taken and used to give a tax credit to people who send their kids to private schools, essentially taking money away from those of us who need the money for our kids to go to school and give it to those who have enough money to send their kid to a private school. More info: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20101190389

 

I recently saw a video from like 1996 of Mitch Daniels when he was with Eli Lilly, in which he said public education doesn't make sense, will never work, and all students should go to charter schools.  Also, isn't Tony Bennett's wife in charge of like 50% of the charter schools in Indiana?  Isn't that a conflict of interest?