Ahawkeye

I was just trying to be funny so please don't get offended anyone. North Posey and Mt. Vernon coming in 2nd and 3rd both schools coached by MD alum. Hope everyone stays healthy this week.

You heard here first!

Hey I'm not much of a betting man!

🤢 and🤢

Congratulations MD Cats!  That was fun and a barn burner!

I wouldn't call Brimm a person who never had any discipline in his life, He went to Evansville Central and I went to Mater Dei. He had some on the mat antics that we didn't like, as a rivalry we didn't like each other but before high school his step father James Shannon would hold weekly or bi-weekly work outs and was a heck of a motivator in the room. James was always soft spoken and celebrated other peoples victories. His Step Father James was always in his corner, always encouraging others.
Now keep in mind I'm an ooooooollllllldddddd Mater Dei guy who bleeds red and gold Coach Goebel was my top motivator but I would watch Jim Shannon run a practice and he got a lot out of you. My point is, even with the rivalry between the two schools and with age and maturity I've realized that most of my former competitors were just kids like me who wanted to win and loved their schools. I don't agree with the MSU article saying that James didn't have any discipline in this life I think it is incorrect. From what I saw in my very short time with James and Jim Shannon there was plenty of discipline and direction. On the other hand as stated I wasn't around him very much just practices and tournaments there could have been a lot to the story that I'm unaware of.
 
  "I thought I had had no impact on this kid at all," he says. "But he said he just had to come back and say thank you for the direction and the discipline he got because he never had that in his life and it meant to the world to him. Then, he hugged me.

I wouldn't call Brimm a person who never had any discipline in his life, He went to Evansville Central and I went to Mater Dei. He had some on the mat antics that we didn't like, as a rivalry we didn't like each other but before high school his step father James Shannon would hold weekly or bi-weekly work outs and was a heck of a motivator in the room. James was always soft spoken and celebrated other peoples victories. His Step Father James was always in his corner, always encouraging others.
Now keep in mind I'm an ooooooollllllldddddd Mater Dei guy who bleeds red and gold Coach Goebel was my top motivator but I would watch Jim Shannon run a practice and he got a lot out of you. My point is, even with the rivalry between the two schools and with age and maturity I've realized that most of my former competitors were just kids like me who wanted to win and loved their schools. I don't agree with the MSU article saying that James didn't have any discipline in this life I think it is incorrect. From what I saw in my very short time with James and Jim Shannon there was plenty of discipline and direction. On the other hand as stated I wasn't around him very much just practices and tournaments there could have been a lot to the story that I'm unaware of.
 
  "I thought I had had no impact on this kid at all," he says. "But he said he just had to come back and say thank you for the direction and the discipline he got because he never had that in his life and it meant to the world to him. Then, he hugged me.

I wouldn't call Brimm a person who never had any discipline in his life, He went to Evansville Central and I went to Mater Dei. He had some on the mat antics that we didn't like, as a rivalry we didn't like each other but before high school his step father James Shannon would hold weekly or bi-weekly work outs and was a heck of a motivator in the room. James was always soft spoken and celebrated other peoples victories. His Step Father James was always in his corner, always encouraging others.
Now keep in mind I'm an ooooooollllllldddddd Mater Dei guy who bleeds red and gold Coach Goebel was my top motivator but I would watch Jim Shannon run a practice and he got a lot out of you. My point is, even with the rivalry between the two schools and with age and maturity I've realized that most of my former competitors were just kids like me who wanted to win and loved their schools. I don't agree with the MSU article saying that James didn't have any discipline in this life I think it is incorrect. From what I saw in my very short time with James and Jim Shannon there was plenty of discipline and direction. On the other hand as stated I wasn't around him very much just practices and tournaments there could have been a lot to the story that I'm unaware of.
 
  "I thought I had had no impact on this kid at all," he says. "But he said he just had to come back and say thank you for the direction and the discipline he got because he never had that in his life and it meant to the world to him. Then, he hugged me.

I say Lee takes Pletcher after watching some tape from Big 10's and also getting P.O.ed at Pletcher for holding up #1 finger. I could be a bit biased though!

I say Lee takes Pletcher after watching some tape from Big 10's and also getting P.O.ed at Pletcher for holding up #1 finger. I could be a bit biased though!

I forgot about that one, the wrestler from MD was Dewig and the other wrestler was from Bloomington South can't remember his name though. Dewig would have done well at state I can't remember if Dewig was a senior or not I know at one time Dewig placed 2nd at state but again I can't remember the details on that. Dewig was going for a near side cradle with his head in the kid's side getting ready to bring the head to the knee the Bloomington south wrestler turned away from Dewig thus causing Dewig to be essentially trying to force his back to bend backwards ref called it illegal the Bloomington South coaches allowed him to take the win, the Bloomington south kid went to state and there was nothing Dewig could do about it. MD crowd was not very kind to that kid all the way through the tournament and into team state, we were hoping for a rematch but it never materialized. I think the Bloomington South kid would probably change history if he could but we all know how that goes, we all make mistakes in life it's just sometimes everyone is watching.

I don't think it could be said any better than this, absolutely perfect 100%. An addition to these points is that there are so few people willing to give everything they have to achieve their goals. In my opinion Silas may have had a goal to win State but I'm pretty sure his goals are WAY higher than that. Look at all of the state champs in any given year regardless of where they came from or where they're going they put a ton of work into their goals, if any individual wants it bad enough there will be a way and they will find that way. 

In all fairness....I think Silas has solidified himself as a pretty special talent regardless of school size.  So with all do respect, I genuinely feel to draw a question about why aren’t more 1A or 2A wrestlers like him, is a bit unfair. Almost as unfair as if I asked why aren’t more 4A wrestlers like him.
 
Admittedly....I certainly don’t have the answers regarding pros/cons of class wrestling.  I think there’s evidence of beneficial dynamics on both sides.  The class question is always intriguing to me because comparisons are frequently made to other power states whose classed (PA, Ill, IA, OH, etc).  But I question these comparisons as it pertains to the benefits of classing Indiana.  In other words....if those states weren’t classed, would they not be as strong?  I personally feel their strengths are elsewhere apart from the classification system. 
Specifically....their head start in club training, and especially collegiate RTC opportunities. Most notably in PA.  In PA alone there are 11 D1 wrestling programs, 8 D2, and 14 D3.  This equates to NEVER having to drive too far down the road to get your butt kicked for 2hrs.  And in my experience, that dynamic coupled with an athletes desire to close the gap....is the biggest catalyst in the evolving of more nationally elite kids.  And unfortunately....class or no class, at this point.....only a handful of young athletes are driven enough to embrace a “Get beat up, or get better” mentality.  In fact, classing things in hopes to raise 1A numbers, kinda caters to many of those athletes who are hesitant to compete because of that fear.  If numbers is the only goal, then classing definitely benefits.  But I’m confident that strictly more bodies on the mat isn’t the zeal motivating class wrestling advocates.
 
I’m fully aware that more participation will undoubtedly eventually mold some freak athlete whose a football player at the small school level into a great wrestler.  But what about the “in-betweens”.  The guys who literally just lack the drive, and want the accolades without the effort.  That’s one of my biggest issues with classing it here.  And full transparency......I’m definitely bias by what I’ve personally experienced at the small school level, in contrast to having graduated and competed athletically myself at Muncie Central. 
 
The Silas scenario is 100% the embodiment of hard work and extreme levels of self motivation. For 2 years, his daily partner was a 160lb’er.....and a true 170 wrestling up to benefit our team. So having a no excuse mentality.....we had to find partners, supplental/paid clinicians for live wrestling, stance and motion in live match format for 5 periods, old school Rocky like strength training, and literally driving anywhere & everywhere in the off-season....to ensure he’d taste humility and have to overcome a peak to close a gap.  Ultimately....it’s simply been a mantra of “Nobody will outwork me”.  That alone excited the recruiters.  Silas’ ceiling hasn’t even been close to established. He’s never had regular elite partners to push him.  He’s a product of self-push, and an overwhelming desire to succeed.
 
In fact, the argument could made.....that Silas is the example of what’s possible at the 1A level.  When you simply don’t make excuses about school size, strength of schedule, partners, etc.  And just literally make it a lifestyle.  Daily telling yourself....I’m going to be better today than I was yesterday. 
 
Again....I don’t have all the answers.  And I respect the opinion of those whose researched the benefits.  I’m just simply sharing what I know to be truth in the lives of my son Silas, and his overzealous dad who fell in love with sport a mere 6 yrs ago. 🤷🏻‍♂️  
 
That said......will classing create more elite athletes?  I can’t buy in.
 
But will it raise numbers and help even more young men become better men?  I’m sold on that.

Maybe give each school an allotted amount of tickets per section based on the number of wrestlers sent, maybe a lottery system on where they'll be each year then let the schools handle how many they need, then the die hard fans could have a couple of sections too?? Probably not a perfect idea but it's a start.

Maybe give each school an allotted amount of tickets per section based on the number of wrestlers sent, maybe a lottery system on where they'll be each year then let the schools handle how many they need, then the die hard fans could have a couple of sections too?? Probably not a perfect idea but it's a start.

Maybe give each school an allotted amount of tickets per section based on the number of wrestlers sent, maybe a lottery system on where they'll be each year then let the schools handle how many they need, then the die hard fans could have a couple of sections too?? Probably not a perfect idea but it's a start.

I was under the impression that attendance was the reason we lost team state. I have no issues with girls wrestling girls but as a Catholic I cannot condone boys wrestling girls. 

The private school comment is a B.S. statement, I truly hope you're joking. I know of several private schools that can't field a full team much less compete for a 4A state wrestling championship.

I get that teams want better competition but why pull out of MD when you haven’t won it? I’m scratching my head on this one.

I get that teams want better competition but why pull out of MD when you haven’t won it? I’m scratching my head on this one.

I'm going with Andy Schneider of Mt. Vernon. Two time champ and dominate through both years. However Chalfant was impressive as well as Chico Adams.
I'm going with Andy Schneider of Mt. Vernon. Two time champ and dominate through both years. However Chalfant was impressive as well as Chico Adams.

As far as hype and crowd energy goes I'd have to say the MD/Evansville Central dual in the 92-93 season (I'm not positive on the year) at MD. The place was packed rabid fans on both sides and no love lost between the programs at the time. It was an electric environment going into that match, a fun time to be a little JV kid who got to wrestle infront of a full house. Another classic was the 94 Indiana's Best when MD squeeked by Belmont. I think it's safe to say that MD has had some barn burners over the years, it's amazing that Coaches Goebel and Helfrich are still breathing today after all they've been through.

Where the hell is that dead horse I want to beat the heck out of him for a while!

Hook,
Post the article about "The Hole" if you would. By the way, I bought the book man it's great! Thank you for your time and effort!