ENoblewrestling

What if...
 
The IHSWCA and IndianaMat cooperate and coordinate to field 3 teams all entered as state association teams sponsored by IndianaMat with the same cost for everyone.  
 
The top 2 teams are based on the normal criteria.  The 3rd team can be chosen by a committee with Joe as chairman.  All 3 teams get the same Gorillas gear (different singlet colors for each team).  Bigger bulk ordering would lower the cost for everyone.
 
The staff of coaches could float to other mats in order to coach their own wrestlers.  It might be necessary to have one head coach or team leader per team that would stay with them for all the duals.  But the rest of the hall of famers and good lookers could help work with everyone.
 
Could this be a solution?

Congrats and welcome Rocco Caprino!
 
Let's send some baby gift ideas..I'll start.
 
A cool N&N Heavy Hands Trained onesy signed by the MajorGeneral.

Those are all really good ideas.
 
The most important thing that we do is work with football, and track. In turn they push kids to wrestle. The main way we did this was by doing the exact same weights program those sports do. This year football lifted everyday after school. We just started practice half an hour later. Football kids lifted, cross country kids ran, some kids did homework, some kids did extra wrestling stuff. It keeps them working with their teammates, and let's them focus on what might be their "main" sport while still wrestling.
 
Our school also started giving three sport athlete patches to three sport kids. The patcges look cool, and help to get kids out for sports that they may not otherwise do. We picked up at least 5 kids with these patches alone. They ran track, played football, and couldn't make the basketball team, that left us hahaha.
 
A couple of other things we do- tell the kids they have a good shot at lettering if they come out for the team. Our 106-120 this year consisted of three freshmen who had never wrestled before. We didn't win a lot, but we didn't forfeit.
 
Push your JV schedule. We keep a fair number of kids for 4 years this way, our guys get between 15 and 20 JV matches, it keeps them out.
 
Push the team. Let them know that we won't beat, whatever team without them. Sell the kids on the importance of each weight. Example this year our 182 won a match against Eastside that won the dual for us. He had 4 wins all year, but that match he won the dual for us.
 
Also to add to what Y2 said give the kids stuff for getting kids out. We gave the wrestler who got the most kids out a pair of shoes. We also would do smaller stuff, buy a case of gatorade, if a guy came to conditioning because you brought him you both get gatorade, stuff like that.

I have a legitimate question for class fans. Do any of you think that we have a special finals, and that there is a positibility that classing could have a negative effect on Indiana Wrestling in that regaurd? I mean we have kids who are national placers who bring up how our tournament is the "best event" in post match interviews, it's obvious that the event is pretty awesome, aren't we risking loosing that in classing it?
That is what has happened to Indiana Basketball, it's not like the state is any better or worse than what it was, it didn't add numbers, or make big school or small school kids better, it just made people care less and it lost a lot of the "buzz" that it used to have, I think that would be a negative from classing. In the end I don't buy that numbers would increase all that much at small schools because of it, but I do think that it would have a negative impact on the experience of our qulaifiers. I know you can't measure it, but I think it's something that should be taken into account.

MD was pointing out that many kids don't really want to or plan on wrestling after high school.  I was adding to his point by pointing out the fact that there is not a lot of participation at local tournaments at the university and senior levels, even though all you have to do is sign-up and show-up.  I agree with his statement that after high school a lot of kids are just done with wrestling as a competitor.  

It's crazy that those numbers almost mirror the total population of each class. Which is BTW what you would staistically expect, which shows that things in terms of qualifiers is realitivily fair.
The total population of the schools is BY FAR the biggest advantage big schools have, yet when it comes down to looking at the numbers we should ignore that fact and just say that each team enters 14 kids at sectionals?
You have to take the total population into account. That was the original group that big schools have to choose from. The problem with doing this of course is that the facts show a slight disadvantage to 1A and 3A schools and a slight advantage to being from a 2A school, which doesn't fit the class fans narritive, so you guys choose to ignore that fact.
The numbers are similar every year, and every year the numbers mirror the total populations. Which again is staistically what you would expect.

It's crazy that those numbers almost mirror the total population of each class. Which is BTW what you would staistically expect, which shows that things in terms of qualifiers is realitivily fair.
The total population of the schools is BY FAR the biggest advantage big schools have, yet when it comes down to looking at the numbers we should ignore that fact and just say that each team enters 14 kids at sectionals?
You have to take the total population into account. That was the original group that big schools have to choose from. The problem with doing this of course is that the facts show a slight disadvantage to 1A and 3A schools and a slight advantage to being from a 2A school, which doesn't fit the class fans narritive, so you guys choose to ignore that fact.
The numbers are similar every year, and every year the numbers mirror the total populations. Which again is staistically what you would expect.

It's crazy that those numbers almost mirror the total population of each class. Which is BTW what you would staistically expect, which shows that things in terms of qualifiers is realitivily fair.
The total population of the schools is BY FAR the biggest advantage big schools have, yet when it comes down to looking at the numbers we should ignore that fact and just say that each team enters 14 kids at sectionals?
You have to take the total population into account. That was the original group that big schools have to choose from. The problem with doing this of course is that the facts show a slight disadvantage to 1A and 3A schools and a slight advantage to being from a 2A school, which doesn't fit the class fans narritive, so you guys choose to ignore that fact.
The numbers are similar every year, and every year the numbers mirror the total populations. Which again is staistically what you would expect.

It's crazy that those numbers almost mirror the total population of each class. Which is BTW what you would staistically expect, which shows that things in terms of qualifiers is realitivily fair.
The total population of the schools is BY FAR the biggest advantage big schools have, yet when it comes down to looking at the numbers we should ignore that fact and just say that each team enters 14 kids at sectionals?
You have to take the total population into account. That was the original group that big schools have to choose from. The problem with doing this of course is that the facts show a slight disadvantage to 1A and 3A schools and a slight advantage to being from a 2A school, which doesn't fit the class fans narritive, so you guys choose to ignore that fact.
The numbers are similar every year, and every year the numbers mirror the total populations. Which again is staistically what you would expect.

So with the big Red Lee match possibly looming I started to think about other matches over the years that had a ton of buildup. I'm sure there are many more but one that stood out to me was Shaffer vs Vega. That match was at either the first or second finals that I had went too. Does anyone know what they were ranked nationally when that match took place? It seemed like that match was similar to this match in terms of the accolades of the wrestlers.
Micic and Lee was pretty hyped up too, I know I'm missing a ton of them, what other matches had a lot of hype heading into this weekend?

I guess that Fort Wayne Northside has their logo/ mascot picks down to two.  It'll be a tough choice-

I guess that Fort Wayne Northside has their logo/ mascot picks down to two.  It'll be a tough choice-

I guess that Fort Wayne Northside has their logo/ mascot picks down to two.  It'll be a tough choice-

Based off genius rankings the forth best team at Jay County Sectional would have been the eighth best at both Carroll and New Haven Sectional. The forth best at Delta would be 7th at Carroll and 8th at New Haven.
I look at the regionals like this,you have three really good teams- Carroll, Bellmont, Yorktown. Those three are a level above the rest. Jay County is ahead there.
You then had four teams Adams Central, Garrett, Jay County, and Leo that are pretty even and could go any number of ways.
Following that group you would have Jay County with just Muncie Central and Winchester that be in the mix with Columbia City, Homestead, Huntington North, Woodlan, Bishop Dwenger, Northside, Concordia, Busco, Snider, wayne, and New Haven. It is the depth of teams that make Carroll tougher imo.
Columbia City is probably actually in that AC, Garrett, Jay County, Leo group.

We placed 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the first three years of the team state.  I am not really worried about our team getting in, we will be fine. This past season  we debated accepting the invite because we knew we would be down, at the end of the day the alternate was a team that we beat fairly handily the year before so we accepted.  If you think we want to get in and get beat down like we did this year you are totally wrong.  We may be down for a few years, we will be up again someday, so will all of those teams you mentioned, you act as though teams that are down should just write themselves off and quit working to get better.  In your view whats the point of counting teams out of the top 20?  They don't have a chance anyhow?  We should actually take the top 36 teams by genius rankings and divide them up, that would be more competitive.
There are several reasons that I voted how I did, none of those reasons have anything to do with how it would effect our team getting into team state.
1. I have told you that I believe in an all in format.  I want this event to help all of the teams in Indiana.  I don't see how telling the smaller schools that your so bad, you don't count will help them at all.   All-in also seems like the most fair way to do it in my opinion. 
2. I feel that changing the classes every year based on the number of teams is confusing and takes away from the event.  Its much "cleaner" if you have your classes for two year periods, and then re-class with the new enrollment numbers every two years.
3. If we want to define schools as being "small, medium, and large, then we would be better off classing by saying schools under 550 are small, 550-1250 are medium, 1250 + are large.  That in my opinion would make much more sense than counting up the teams each year and recreating the classes.
4. Some of the teams that were effected were already competitive in the class above.  Southmont for example was a top 4 team in class 2A, now they go to to 1A and of course are one of the top teams.  As they come down that means that another, smaller team will be left out.  Who gains more in this situation?  Southmont, or the smaller team that may get into team state for the first time?  To me that is a debatable question.
5. 1A was the class that had the most turnover over the years, I feel that this is a good thing, the more teams we get involved the better.  By making 1A more difficult you are also making it more difficult for those smaller teams to get in.  Whats better for the sport, having a group of 4-5 teams that dominate a class, which is what could happen, or having multiple teams via for a spot?
 
So there is my thought process behind why I voted the way that I did.  With all of that being said, I still see and understand your points.  There are some good things that would come and did come from cutting teams from the process.  You had a much tougher class 1A, the tournament had added excitement, it may push 1A schools to get better, etc, etc, etc.  I am just not sure that is what is best for the overall aspect of the event, and still don't know.  It added somethings, took away some others.  If we voted again today, I would think the process through and see what I felt was best for the most teams again.

Another big one is questioning the weight classes. It asked if finding upper and lower weight wrestlers was a problem in your area. I wish they would have asked about each separately.
The question about forfeits counting as more than pins was intriguing too. It said it was to push the importance of filling rosters.
There was a ton of great message board fodder on the survey this year.

Coaches make sure that you take this years survey.  We were "scolded" more or less at the fall clinic for our lack of participation in last years survey.  I just took this years, and there are all sorts of hot-button topics, and even some that I have never heard about, so make sure your voice is heard and take the survey.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

We placed 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the first three years of the team state.  I am not really worried about our team getting in, we will be fine. This past season  we debated accepting the invite because we knew we would be down, at the end of the day the alternate was a team that we beat fairly handily the year before so we accepted.  If you think we want to get in and get beat down like we did this year you are totally wrong.  We may be down for a few years, we will be up again someday, so will all of those teams you mentioned, you act as though teams that are down should just write themselves off and quit working to get better.  In your view whats the point of counting teams out of the top 20?  They don't have a chance anyhow?  We should actually take the top 36 teams by genius rankings and divide them up, that would be more competitive.
There are several reasons that I voted how I did, none of those reasons have anything to do with how it would effect our team getting into team state.
1. I have told you that I believe in an all in format.  I want this event to help all of the teams in Indiana.  I don't see how telling the smaller schools that your so bad, you don't count will help them at all.   All-in also seems like the most fair way to do it in my opinion. 
2. I feel that changing the classes every year based on the number of teams is confusing and takes away from the event.  Its much "cleaner" if you have your classes for two year periods, and then re-class with the new enrollment numbers every two years.
3. If we want to define schools as being "small, medium, and large, then we would be better off classing by saying schools under 550 are small, 550-1250 are medium, 1250 + are large.  That in my opinion would make much more sense than counting up the teams each year and recreating the classes.
4. Some of the teams that were effected were already competitive in the class above.  Southmont for example was a top 4 team in class 2A, now they go to to 1A and of course are one of the top teams.  As they come down that means that another, smaller team will be left out.  Who gains more in this situation?  Southmont, or the smaller team that may get into team state for the first time?  To me that is a debatable question.
5. 1A was the class that had the most turnover over the years, I feel that this is a good thing, the more teams we get involved the better.  By making 1A more difficult you are also making it more difficult for those smaller teams to get in.  Whats better for the sport, having a group of 4-5 teams that dominate a class, which is what could happen, or having multiple teams via for a spot?
 
So there is my thought process behind why I voted the way that I did.  With all of that being said, I still see and understand your points.  There are some good things that would come and did come from cutting teams from the process.  You had a much tougher class 1A, the tournament had added excitement, it may push 1A schools to get better, etc, etc, etc.  I am just not sure that is what is best for the overall aspect of the event, and still don't know.  It added somethings, took away some others.  If we voted again today, I would think the process through and see what I felt was best for the most teams again.

I agree a classed all in team tournament would be awesome.  A couple of things to consider that would be major hurdles-
 
1. Does any other "individual" sport have anything like this?  I don't believe that they do, the IHSAA from what I have been told likes to treat the individual and team sports on sort of the same page.  Maybe we could find another sport with similar circumstances and go in with them?  I don't know enough about the other individual sports to answer that.
 
2. Scheduling- I have seen a few versions of this purposed tournament that could be ran in a week or two, if we could find a version that could be ran and finished in a week, it seems like that could be doable. 
 
3. The cost- I am not sure about the in's and out's of this one, but the IHSAA pays for gas mileage for their tournament events, or something along those lines.  The more IHSAA tournament teams that compete the more they would have to pay, so I assume we would have to prove that this would be very profitable.
 
Good discussion, it would be awesome if we could get this done at some point,