H.B.

I was very happy to read this. I’ve watched California’s tournament finals the past few years and have yet to be disappointed, but the coverage from Flo this year was phenomenal. I am with you in saying it’s time for Indiana to evolve.

I have always only attended the IHSAA State Tourney, whether it was to watch as a youngster or wrestle in it. This didn't really give me much perspective on the class system and all the ins and outs of how it is ran at the state tournament level in other states. I recently moved to Colorado about a year and a half ago and began coaching at a 5A school in the Denver Metro Area, where I not only had the chance to experience it first hand, but also had the chance to speak to others on their thoughts on how Indiana runs it. I definitely got a lot of 'wow! no wrestle backs'...'if you lose first/second round at semi state or 1st round at state, you are done? what if you wrestle the champion first?'...but the overall thing they all stated was 'I really wish it was just one class like IN, CA, NJ, etc.'
I didn't want to judge it based on just their opinion, so I had to wait until the post season rolled around for the State Tournament, and fortunately I had a State Qualifier, so I can have added input. After going through it, I can express my thoughts. Colorado has 4 classes (2A-5A). I know a lot will say we wouldn't do 4 classes and would do 2 or 3. The concerns I have still pertain to what I saw, but who knows maybe it would be way better with 2 or 3 vs 4. 
My issues with the class system starts with the amount of division that causes between the state. They had 10 mats out but ran 2a/3a together and 4a/5a together making it two entirely different tournaments on the thursday, friday, sessions. They would make you leave multiple times within the tournament if your session wasn't going. Even though we ran our 5A session with 4A, there was no association at all. 4A  was on mats 1-5 and 5A was on mats 6-10. and I guarantee if you were associated with 5A, you will have no chance to see the 4a matches across the event center with 10 mats going. Let alone the 2a/3a you werent allowed to stay for.
This boils down to the recognition factor for these young men pouring their hearts into this Sport that will in turn grow the sport. There were 4 individuals going for their 4th state title. 3 achieved it. one was 2a, one was 3a, and one was 5a. Im sure you can assume the only one I was able to watch the whole time I was their. I wish I had the chance to watch Andrew Alirez ranked #1 in the nation at 152) in route to becoming a 4 timer, but he was in 3A. If you have affiliation with a certain class, you wont be able to watch others. There is too much going on. I did get to watch Cohlton Shultz capture his 4 timer status though, and keep his #1 in the country and #1 pound for pound status in tact. They keep everything separated and I dont see how that would be a good fit for the state of Indiana. I personally like seeing all the schools in the same tourney on the Individual side. 
A side note from talking to all of the individuals is the ones in the higher classes just talk down about the smaller classes and say 'everyone knows 5A is the only one that matters' and I know we say Indiana wouldn't say that, but I think over time it would trickle down and everyone would view the bigger class as more meaningful. Most of the people that were pure fans would only come for 5a and would not care one bit about the other classes. Even if I didn't have a wrestler in the 5A competition and went as a fan, it would be way to hard to watch multiple. 
My conclusion and my stance after experiencing it first hand (Granted Colorado may be an anomaly) is for the individual tournament for Indiana to stay 1 class, but we need to have wrestle backs at least at semi state and definitely state. I think the class system is perfect for team state, but the amount of people that weighed in that they wish their was a true champion rather than crowning 56 state champions was unbelievable. I think what draws me into keeping it one class is the amount of division between classes there is. I get why they call it 'States' now cause its as if there is multiple different state tournaments going on at the same time and you can't associate with multiple. So even if we class the individual tournament and a small school gets more state champions, they will be a state champ, but most will only be watching the bigger classes anyways. I couldn't tell you one thing about any 2a school in the state of Colorado. Name of the school, names of any wrestlers, how many they qualified/placed, etc. Because it is all separate. And I don't want that to happen to Indiana. I like being familiar with every school. I know chances of making it are harder, but Indiana is a hard state to qualify in. Just my 2 cents. It's mostly theoretical and we would never know until applied. One thing's for sure. I am sure missing that Indiana atmosphere when it comes to the post season. 
 
 

Until a team comes up with 600 pts, like the 49 Bloomington. There shouldn’t be a an Argument

2004 portage team was the first team to beat EMD in the state dual tourney. At least we have that going for us lol

This year’s state tournament was a low scoring affair for the champs in comparison to the past three years, but nonetheless this Cathedral team went through hell and came out on top. While I think last year’s team was the best Cathedral team of all-time, this year is in the top three as it is a state title team. What other teams do you guys think showed the best versions of themselves? I’d give a nod to Avon. A program that’s been on the come up for years and after wrestling above their seed at IHSWCA Team State, I thought the state finals was their breakout performance that showed the true heart of the Orioles and that they belong in the conversation of powerhouse programs in Indiana. I’ll give some more teams a shout out below. Who do you guys think is the best version of a specific team?
 
Avon - 2019 IHSAA Team Runners-Up, 72.0 points (2 Champs, 1 Runner-Up, 1 5th Place, 7 Qualifiers; 5th at IHSWCA State Duals)
Brownsburg - 2017 IHSAA Team Champions, 100.0 points (1 Champ, 2 Runner-Ups, 1 3rd Place, 1 4th Place, 1 5th Place, 1 7th Place, 8 Qualifiers; IHSWCA State Dual Champs)
Cathedral - 2018 IHSAA Team Champions, 108.0 points (1 Champ, 3 Runner-Ups, 1 3rd Place, 1 4th Place, 1 7th Place, 10 Qualifiers)
Evansville Mater Dei - 2003 IHSAA Team Champions, 42-23 score, would have scored unprecedented 158.0 team points at individual tournament (4 Champs, 1 Runner-Up, 2 3rd Place, 10 Qualifiers)
Perry Meridian - 2012 IHSAA Team Champions, FINAL, 43-14 score (1 Champ, 2 Runner-Ups, 2 3rd Place, 1 4th Place, 2 7th Place, 9 Qualifiers)
Warren Central - 2016 IHSAA Team Champions, 109.5 points, RECORD (1 Champ, 3 Runner-Ups, 2 5th Place, 2 7th Place, 8 Qualifiers; IHSWCA State Dual Runners-Up)
Other teams I’m thinking of... Lawrence North, 2005; Crown Point, 2009; Penn, 2015
That Mater Dei squad... Just typing that gave me chills. Were they that scary?!?!?!?

This is based on a combination of dual meet strength and team scoring. The 2014 Perry Meridian team you mentioned was a very talented group. The 2014 squad went 23-2 that year, suffering a shocking loss at the hands of Franklin Community, 27-26, followed by a foolish loss to a game Penn squad, and finished 4th at both the IHSWCA State Duals and IHSAA Finals with only three placers in LeCount, James, and Elliott, among eight total qualifiers. Not to mention, they led the majority of the tournament with just those three making it through Friday, consolation rounds allowed Cathedral, Franklin, and Yorktown to pull ahead of them. The Cathedral team that won the title that year won in one of the most unconvincing fashions. They finished 5th at IHSWCA State Duals and had six losses on the year losing to about every other top squad in Indiana. The best team from top to bottom that year was Franklin Community, in my opinion. Losing Petrole Friday night really hurt their chance at a team title. 20-0, Traicoff champs, IHSWCA State Duals champs, IHSAA Runners-Up. The following year, Perry Meridian, Mater Dei, and Penn returned as the big three of 2015. Mater Dei won IHSWCA State Duals over Perry Meridian, 31-27. Perry beat Penn 33-32 to get to the finals in a death match of a dual. That squad went 19-1 and Mater Dei went 23-0 that year if I remember correctly. EMD had secured the #1 dual ranking, but Perry Meridian was the #1 team in the power rankings heading into the postseason, but they had the most nightmarish semi-state meltdown I’ve ever seen. They were predicted to get about 8-9 through and they dropped like flies in the ticket round after advancing 13 through to New Castle. Also, another squad that was very good that I don’t think gets enough credit was the 2013 Warren Central team. At one point, I thought they were gonna figure it out and push past Perry, but injuries plagued the squad and my boy Georgio Blades had the unfortunate draw of Wes Bernard in the ticket round. They finished sixth that year at the IHSAA Finals, and don’t forget my 2011 Roncalli boys! Had the misfortune of Perry in the first round of Team State in 2011. Lost 35-27.

yes that Mater Dei team was that scary..my team had 5 state qualifiers on it and 11 SSQ and they beat up by 60 plus.. they were UNREAL

I don’t think we would have the venue we have if the IHSAA did not care about wrestling.  I am willing to bet that revenue wise, our State Tournament does pretty well for them in its current format.  I am sure it being picked up for a Live broadcast helps with revenue as well. 
There in lies the problem I feel. Their thought is probably, if it ain’t broke, pun intended, don’t fix it.
I do think it has been brought to light before that our coaches association sometimes struggles with getting the IHSAA to take them seriously with changes.  Maybe we have to think outside the box to get our changes made to our tournament. What that is I don’t know, but hopefully moving forward we can see some steps being taken in a positive direction.

I remember the Indianapolis Star doing these years ago, last I remember 2012, but I’m not sure if these are a thing anymore. It’s been awhile since I’ve followed wrestling and this was the first state tournament I’ve seen top to bottom in years. With that being said, here’s my crack at it.
106 - Alex Cottey of Perry Meridian
113 - Zeke Seltzer of Cathedral
120 - Brayden Littell of Center Grove
126 - Ray Rioux of Avon
132 - Asa Garcia of Avon
138 - Tyce Freije of Roncalli
145 - Alex Mosconi of Cathedral
152 - Elliott Rodgers of Cathedral
160 - Jordan Slivka of Cathedral
170 - Elijah Mahan of Roncalli
182 - Carson Brewer of Avon
195 - Nick Willham of Greenwood
220 - Lawson Aiken of Brownsburg
285 - Dorian Keys of Brownsburg
 
A pretty solid squad I’d say, don’t ya think? 6 state champs, 6 runner-ups, a third, and a fourth place. I’d like to see this team against like a Team Indiana from every area. If anyone could put one together, please do.

I remember the Indianapolis Star doing these years ago, last I remember 2012, but I’m not sure if these are a thing anymore. It’s been awhile since I’ve followed wrestling and this was the first state tournament I’ve seen top to bottom in years. With that being said, here’s my crack at it.
106 - Alex Cottey of Perry Meridian
113 - Zeke Seltzer of Cathedral
120 - Brayden Littell of Center Grove
126 - Ray Rioux of Avon
132 - Asa Garcia of Avon
138 - Tyce Freije of Roncalli
145 - Alex Mosconi of Cathedral
152 - Elliott Rodgers of Cathedral
160 - Jordan Slivka of Cathedral
170 - Elijah Mahan of Roncalli
182 - Carson Brewer of Avon
195 - Nick Willham of Greenwood
220 - Lawson Aiken of Brownsburg
285 - Dorian Keys of Brownsburg
 
A pretty solid squad I’d say, don’t ya think? 6 state champs, 6 runner-ups, a third, and a fourth place. I’d like to see this team against like a Team Indiana from every area. If anyone could put one together, please do.

The Indiana state tournament series already doesn’t mean much with the way it’s ran. The lack of seeding or wrestlebacks kills our potential. You want to see a good single class tournament? Watch the CIF State Championships. Excellent from top to bottom.

I apologize for my high volume of posts, but I have a rare free day and am a little fired up. I saw on an earlier thread a poster made the remark that “the IHSAA only cares about crowning the champion.” It really ticked me off, not because he said it, but because it’s true. If crowning the champion is the only thing that matters, what do we do all of this pointless wrestling for? I say forget it, if that’s how they want it. Just allow top four placement for the sake of advancing to the state finals and when it’s time to be downtown, the tournament is single elimination. No wrestlebacks or consolations. Just the winner of the finals being recognized. Since that’s all that matters. The IHSAA doesn’t care about wrestling and it sucks.

The Indiana state tournament series already doesn’t mean much with the way it’s ran. The lack of seeding or wrestlebacks kills our potential. You want to see a good single class tournament? Watch the CIF State Championships. Excellent from top to bottom.

I remember the Indianapolis Star doing these years ago, last I remember 2012, but I’m not sure if these are a thing anymore. It’s been awhile since I’ve followed wrestling and this was the first state tournament I’ve seen top to bottom in years. With that being said, here’s my crack at it.
106 - Alex Cottey of Perry Meridian
113 - Zeke Seltzer of Cathedral
120 - Brayden Littell of Center Grove
126 - Ray Rioux of Avon
132 - Asa Garcia of Avon
138 - Tyce Freije of Roncalli
145 - Alex Mosconi of Cathedral
152 - Elliott Rodgers of Cathedral
160 - Jordan Slivka of Cathedral
170 - Elijah Mahan of Roncalli
182 - Carson Brewer of Avon
195 - Nick Willham of Greenwood
220 - Lawson Aiken of Brownsburg
285 - Dorian Keys of Brownsburg
 
A pretty solid squad I’d say, don’t ya think? 6 state champs, 6 runner-ups, a third, and a fourth place. I’d like to see this team against like a Team Indiana from every area. If anyone could put one together, please do.

I remember the Indianapolis Star doing these years ago, last I remember 2012, but I’m not sure if these are a thing anymore. It’s been awhile since I’ve followed wrestling and this was the first state tournament I’ve seen top to bottom in years. With that being said, here’s my crack at it.
106 - Alex Cottey of Perry Meridian
113 - Zeke Seltzer of Cathedral
120 - Brayden Littell of Center Grove
126 - Ray Rioux of Avon
132 - Asa Garcia of Avon
138 - Tyce Freije of Roncalli
145 - Alex Mosconi of Cathedral
152 - Elliott Rodgers of Cathedral
160 - Jordan Slivka of Cathedral
170 - Elijah Mahan of Roncalli
182 - Carson Brewer of Avon
195 - Nick Willham of Greenwood
220 - Lawson Aiken of Brownsburg
285 - Dorian Keys of Brownsburg
 
A pretty solid squad I’d say, don’t ya think? 6 state champs, 6 runner-ups, a third, and a fourth place. I’d like to see this team against like a Team Indiana from every area. If anyone could put one together, please do.

I remember the Indianapolis Star doing these years ago, last I remember 2012, but I’m not sure if these are a thing anymore. It’s been awhile since I’ve followed wrestling and this was the first state tournament I’ve seen top to bottom in years. With that being said, here’s my crack at it.
106 - Alex Cottey of Perry Meridian
113 - Zeke Seltzer of Cathedral
120 - Brayden Littell of Center Grove
126 - Ray Rioux of Avon
132 - Asa Garcia of Avon
138 - Tyce Freije of Roncalli
145 - Alex Mosconi of Cathedral
152 - Elliott Rodgers of Cathedral
160 - Jordan Slivka of Cathedral
170 - Elijah Mahan of Roncalli
182 - Carson Brewer of Avon
195 - Nick Willham of Greenwood
220 - Lawson Aiken of Brownsburg
285 - Dorian Keys of Brownsburg
 
A pretty solid squad I’d say, don’t ya think? 6 state champs, 6 runner-ups, a third, and a fourth place. I’d like to see this team against like a Team Indiana from every area. If anyone could put one together, please do.

I was very happy to read this. I’ve watched California’s tournament finals the past few years and have yet to be disappointed, but the coverage from Flo this year was phenomenal. I am with you in saying it’s time for Indiana to evolve.

I love how we dismiss this guy wasn't the best in weight class for 3 years 

Dorian never wore a singlet in high school until this year as far I understand it.  I have never filled out the finals form for announcements, but we should have said something like “his first time wearing a singlet in high school was this year”.  His first match this year he was one locked hands from from a disqualification.  A few weeks before the sectional he asked me, “So coach how do these overtime rules work”.  He just said and asked some of the most ridiculous questions for someone having so much success.  It’s kind of an inside thing on our team and seemed to get Dorian wrestling even better...and it cracked us up because he really didn’t know the answers or why the questions were funny.   When he would ask a very basic question, guys would same something like “dude if you weren’t a rookie you would know that”.  Again, an inside thing we had going with Dorian.  Kind of had to be there. Lol. 
Snyder 

What is with Indiana and them being against kids having a little fun? It’s a sandwich. It’s not him taking away from his opponent at all by eating it. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match in any way. Trent Hidlay literally ate a hoagie after Who’s #1 and it was celebrated as a great celebration by a great wrestler. The kids here can’t do anything spontaneous or out of the ordinary without being called classless. Chad Red got criticized for dancing after winning, same with Deondre. I can only imagine how much excitement runs through someone after winning a state championship or even being in the match.  Brewer ate a sandwich during the face off most likely because he was hungry. It didn’t hurt anyone. They’re kids. Let them have fun. Not everyone has to have these stale facial expressions. We should want some spontaneity.

What is with Indiana and them being against kids having a little fun? It’s a sandwich. It’s not him taking away from his opponent at all by eating it. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match in any way. Trent Hidlay literally ate a hoagie after Who’s #1 and it was celebrated as a great celebration by a great wrestler. The kids here can’t do anything spontaneous or out of the ordinary without being called classless. Chad Red got criticized for dancing after winning, same with Deondre. I can only imagine how much excitement runs through someone after winning a state championship or even being in the match.  Brewer ate a sandwich during the face off most likely because he was hungry. It didn’t hurt anyone. They’re kids. Let them have fun. Not everyone has to have these stale facial expressions. We should want some spontaneity.

What is with Indiana and them being against kids having a little fun? It’s a sandwich. It’s not him taking away from his opponent at all by eating it. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match in any way. Trent Hidlay literally ate a hoagie after Who’s #1 and it was celebrated as a great celebration by a great wrestler. The kids here can’t do anything spontaneous or out of the ordinary without being called classless. Chad Red got criticized for dancing after winning, same with Deondre. I can only imagine how much excitement runs through someone after winning a state championship or even being in the match.  Brewer ate a sandwich during the face off most likely because he was hungry. It didn’t hurt anyone. They’re kids. Let them have fun. Not everyone has to have these stale facial expressions. We should want some spontaneity.

Just wanted to take a second and say Thank you to all the supporters Brayden has had though the years. We new jumping up in weight this year would be a risk, but Brayden has never been one to back down from a challenge. No complaints or excuses 7th, 1st, 1st and 4th plus being one of the smallest in 126 he did a great job and as his father could not ask for anything more. We will be looking to the future and getting a great education thanks to this sport and who knows maybe an NAIA National title along the way.
Congrats to everyone that won and those that did not keep working hard and you just might find yourself under the lights. To all the Seniors it's been one hell of a journey. Most of you we have wrestled with or against since elementary and though those battles made some great friends or dare i say family. 
Again Thank you Indiana for giving my son a sport with the best fans and competitors.
 
The Curtis Family

What is with Indiana and them being against kids having a little fun? It’s a sandwich. It’s not him taking away from his opponent at all by eating it. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match in any way. Trent Hidlay literally ate a hoagie after Who’s #1 and it was celebrated as a great celebration by a great wrestler. The kids here can’t do anything spontaneous or out of the ordinary without being called classless. Chad Red got criticized for dancing after winning, same with Deondre. I can only imagine how much excitement runs through someone after winning a state championship or even being in the match.  Brewer ate a sandwich during the face off most likely because he was hungry. It didn’t hurt anyone. They’re kids. Let them have fun. Not everyone has to have these stale facial expressions. We should want some spontaneity.

What is with Indiana and them being against kids having a little fun? It’s a sandwich. It’s not him taking away from his opponent at all by eating it. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match in any way. Trent Hidlay literally ate a hoagie after Who’s #1 and it was celebrated as a great celebration by a great wrestler. The kids here can’t do anything spontaneous or out of the ordinary without being called classless. Chad Red got criticized for dancing after winning, same with Deondre. I can only imagine how much excitement runs through someone after winning a state championship or even being in the match.  Brewer ate a sandwich during the face off most likely because he was hungry. It didn’t hurt anyone. They’re kids. Let them have fun. Not everyone has to have these stale facial expressions. We should want some spontaneity.