A Proposal for Semistate

[AndyStJ]

First off, I am strongly in favor of full wrestlebacks, but that is not going to happen soon, or probably ever.

 

I also think that the worst aspect of the IHSAA wrestling tournament is the four-wrestler Semistate pod, where it is single elimination to qualify for state. A little while ago, someone gave the situation at 120 in Evansville, where one regional has three top 8 wrestlers, and another has one top 8 wrestler. These four seem on paper to be the strongest, but there is only a one in three chance that it will even be possible for the four of them to qualify for State because there is a two in three chance that two wrestlers will be in the same pod. Completely luck of the draw, with nothing that can be done. Other Semistates and weights will also have top-16 matchups in the ticket round, with one wrestler staying home for State, and other pods having more favorable draws. I think this is blatantly unfair to our wrestlers.

 

My minimalist proposal is that everything stay the same except:

 

Instead of the 3-4 match we have two repechage matches.
Match 1: Ticket round loss to finalist A vs semifinal loss to finalist A
Match 2: Ticket round loss to finalist B vs semifinal loss to finalist B
Winners of Match 1 and 2 qualify for the state finals.

 

This will only require one additional match per weight class, so 14 total per Semistate, and the matches would be held at the same time as 3-4 now, so it would not take any longer. I think that this solves a lot of the Semistate draw problems, although not all. It is a bit like the Olympic procedure but simplified.

 

Good points:
1. the "I have the state champ (or state top in my ticket round so I have no shot" problem goes away. Once you make the ticket round, you would have to lose two matches to not qualify, but only if your ticket round is against a finalist. If you lose in the ticket round against someone who loses the semifinal, your claim to top-four in semistate is not very strong. 
2. It would take zero extra time, and only one extra match per weight class.
3. It is really simple.
4. It is better than what we have now.

 

Bad points:
1. You would have two SS 3rd place, like the Olympics. You could have one additional final 3-4 match, but that would take more time and one more round. Or, you could say that the wrestler who lost to SS champion is 3rd and the wrestler who lost to SS runner up is 4th. Or you could pick out of a hat: IHSAA likes that.
2. Losers in the first round are still short of luck. But even with full wrestlebacks, I think that very few 1st round SS losers would qualify for the State Finals. 

So what do you think? 
 

[buttler73]

The world would blowup. 

 

[buttler73]

I think you would need the extra match. Placing 3 at state versus a 4 is a pretty big deal your Friday night match s a #2 seed versus a 3 seed. thats can be the difference in making the podium. Everything should be earned and not left to a blind pick.

[Silence Dogood]

Or just do wrestlebacks. We have already have the obvious solution. We do it at sectional. Add it to regional. And add it to semistate. And go ahead and add it to state. 

[AndyStJ]

14 minutes ago, buttler73 said:

I think you would need the extra match. Placing 3 at state versus a 4 is a pretty big deal your Friday night match s a #2 seed versus a 3 seed. thats can be the difference in making the podium. Everything should be earned and not left to a blind pick.

If you have 3-4, there would be 2 additional matches per weight class, but it would need one additional round of wrestling. It is more fair, but I guess the question is now what can be done. I am really in favor of anything better than now that can be pushed through IHSAA. 

[Y2CJ41]

Why have wrestle-backs, just work harder and be the bad draw. Don't be like me and be the easy draw.

[Timeinandout]

I think we have to go a different avenue. If you lose first or second round at Semi-state, the best you can get is 6th (wrestlebacks). Yes, this means one class, but top 6 make it to state. Why would the IHSAA allow this? Money talks! Friday is already an all day affair. You would put 30-50% more butts in the seats.

 

Finalists at semi-state get a bye first round. Two rounds Friday of state. Let's Gooooo

[Wrestling Scholar]

5 hours ago, AndyStJ said:

 

Instead of the 3-4 match we have two repechage matches.

 

1.Yea,  instead of using  these soiled  word not be said to the IHSAA, "Wrestlebacks".  We'll use the word "Repechage".  Its more exotic,  mysterious, and interesting.  We could rebrand the whole movement

 

4 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Why have wrestle-backs, just work harder and be the bad draw. Don't be like me and be the easy draw.

2.  "No wrestlebacks" not only make our wrestlers work harder,  the process is much more efficient.  You  only need to wrestle 20 matches per bracket instead of the bloated 29 in a wrestleback bracket.  Thats a 35% savings,    You sell tickets at full price, but give the customers 35% less matches.     That's what you call profitable.   They should apply that to the State football and basketball tournaments.    Just play 2 1/2 quarters in state tournament basketball games,  you get done a lot earlier.   That way,  the basketball teams would have to do a lot more in the 1st quarter because it would count more.  The 1st quarter would be much more exciting.

 

Maybe the should apply that to track also.  Like in the 100 Meter dash should be the 65 meter dash.   The start of the race would be much more important and  really exciting.  Instead of going to 25 points in state tournament volleyball games, they should  go to 16 points.    Lets play 4 1/2  innings in a state baseball games.  That 1st inning would really be exciting, just like our ticket round.   We could do it to swimming also,   Nobody wants to sit and a watch a full 500 meters.  Lets reduce it by 35%, people would be much more interested in the  325 meters.  Do you want to watch all 18 holes at the state golf tournament?   Get this,   how about 12 holes.   Thats efficient and exciting.   Gymnastics has too many apparatus also,  lets cut out the uneven bars and give them one vault instead of two.  Tennis is too long, lets make it a 4 game set instead of 6. That 1st game really would count. 

[Silence Dogood]

3 hours ago, Timeinandout said:

I think we have to go a different avenue. If you lose first or second round at Semi-state, the best you can get is 6th (wrestlebacks). Yes, this means one class, but top 6 make it to state. Why would the IHSAA allow this? Money talks! Friday is already an all day affair. You would put 30-50% more butts in the seats.

 

Finalists at semi-state get a bye first round. Two rounds Friday of state. Let's Gooooo

[Ahawkeye]

12 hours ago, AndyStJ said:

repechage

I was scanning through and as soon as I saw this word I knew for sure the ihsaa would never go for it!

[Timeinandout]

14 hours ago, Silence Dogood said:

We should have the top 6 from semi-state move on to state. This is probably too much wrestle back to ask for. Here is an example of a Semi-state Bracket:

Here is the state bracket. Obviously, it wouldn't be single elimination past the quart quarters. 1st and 2nd at semi-state would get a bye. Money talks. More dudes in seats at state. One short extra round.

 

 

 

[Neccdad]

Gotta love the people that want to fix the best tournament the Ihsaa puts on!

[Trinedad]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:59 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

Why have wrestle-backs, just work harder and be the bad draw. Don't be like me and be the easy draw.

Mr. Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town, you dont draw Shiite Lebowski....