Can Indiana ever contest for a big ten title?

[Disco]

Realistically, I don’t see it in a lifetime. But does it matter ?  If they can get a NCAA individual champion every year or two, 

[RAJR]

Not without solid D1 wrestlers on the roster and when have they had individual champions every year or two? Agree, don't see it in the near term for sure.

[ReformedPoster]

In a word, no

[Thor]

Neither IU or Purdue will ever challenge for a team title under the current structure. The haves and have nots gap is as wide as it's ever been and is not closing any time soon. Penn State has guys sitting on the bench for multiple years that would be immediate AA contenders at an Indiana school. It's insane how a few schools in the country stockpile so much talent. IU or Purdue will never get close to that.

[SIACfan]

13 hours ago, Disco said:

Realistically, I don’t see it in a lifetime. But does it matter ?  If they can get a NCAA individual champion every year or two, 

 

There has never been a time when IU was producing NCAA Champs every year or two. They use to have AA's every year or two, but the last AA they had was 2017 (Nathan Jackson).

 

The gap between the haves & the have-nots has been increasing for a decade now, and with the transfer portal it is only getting worse.

[Justdo^it135]

I think a programs success depends on the adults dedicated to the program more than what is commonly considered. 

 

When you look at PSU everyone talks about Cael, but I would think it has more to do with the effort and competency of the people he surrounds himself with, coupled with the financial backing the university makes to the program. When factoring in all aspects of the Penn State program there is a massive number of people on the staff. 

 

I think Angel is moving in the correct direction at IU. Seeing them bring on a guy like Brian Anderson to be the director of Indiana RTC is extremely encouraging. If they continue to build and show IU a positive return on investment for the resources the school provides the program, they will continue to add resources to the community actively working to build the program. Get the right people in those roles, and the program will generate more income, the brand will improve, and results will come with. 

 

[ReformedPoster]

29 minutes ago, Justdo^it135 said:

I think a programs success depends on the adults dedicated to the program more than what is commonly considered. 

 

When you look at PSU everyone talks about Cael, but I would think it has more to do with the effort and competency of the people he surrounds himself with, coupled with the financial backing the university makes to the program. When factoring in all aspects of the Penn State program there is a massive number of people on the staff. 

 

I think Angel is moving in the correct direction at IU. Seeing them bring on a guy like Brian Anderson to be the director of Indiana RTC is extremely encouraging. If they continue to build and show IU a positive return on investment for the resources the school provides the program, they will continue to add resources to the community actively working to build the program. Get the right people in those roles, and the program will generate more income, the brand will improve, and results will come with. 

 

Results won't come without elite recruits.  I'm sorry, but while the effort in matches has improved since Goldman, I haven't really seen the talent in the room improve.  There are so many Indiana HS studs in the room, but they haven't developed as quickly as other schools develop their kids.

[Ahap88]

Ever is a long time. Penn State's last national championship pre Cael was 1953. This paragraph is copied from a site called "Onward State". It's understood that the college recruiting landscape is different now. IU basketball, now on hard times, was once a national powerhouse. It will return eventually. Wrestling can get there, too.

Penn State was in a rut before Sanderson arrived. The long-underwhelming Nittany Lions were coming off an 8-12-2 dual season and a 17^th place at the 2009 NCAA Championships. Just the year before, Penn State had placed third at nationals. However, that finish stands as an outlier and was the product of a remarkable run where everything seemed to work out in the Nittany Lions’ favor. The team hovered around .500 under head coach Troy Sunderland and had only one other top-five finish in his 11 years, placing as low as 35th.https://pennstatewrestlingclub.org/history/year-by-year/

[Ahap88]

That said, with NIL money in play, it will take a larger financial commitment from the university, as you basically have to bid on top level talent now. Michigan went out and bought themselves a pretty nice team this year.

[Disco]

On 1/14/2024 at 11:40 PM, RAJR said:

Not without solid D1 wrestlers on the roster and when have they had individual champions every year or two? Agree, don't see it in the near term for sure.

My point is , would having a champion every two or three years pacify Indianas fan base? Knowing any title is out of question. By the way, Joe D. And Angel E. Had a few titles pretty close together. 

[RAJR]

59 minutes ago, Disco said:

My point is , would having a champion every two or three years pacify Indianas fan base? Knowing any title is out of question. By the way, Joe D. And Angel E. Had a few titles pretty close together. 

 

Yeah, IIRC, Joe won 2005 & 2006.  Saw him in person, he seemed huge!  Angel won in 2008 and one of the best all time from Indiana IMO.  But that was a long time ago.

 

I don't think IU can have a champ every two or three years right now or in the near future. I think having a few AA's every year or two would be a more realistic goal and would help the program overall tremendously including the fan base.

[SunDevils]

On 1/16/2024 at 6:50 PM, Ahap88 said:

That said, with NIL money in play, it will take a larger financial commitment from the university, as you basically have to bid on top level talent now. Michigan went out and bought themselves a pretty nice team this year.

As someone who has worked for multiple institutions - Texas A&M, ASU, and SMU - I can confidently tell you that universities do not pay athletes.

 

NIL deals are from businesses or functionally, fake non-profit foundations established by businesses and alumni (Texas A&M and Ohio State Football lead the nation in this practice). Additionally, the average deal outside of football or basketball and attractive athletes in fringe sports (female gymnastics and NCAAW basketball) the deals are minimal at best. Of course, there are a few anomalies in wrestling, but many boosters and businesses aren't throwing millions of dollars at wrestlers, there is not a lot of ROI in wrestling (sadly). 

 

That being said maybe IU can get Mark Cuban to sponsor some top tier talent for IU wrestling. 

[ReformedPoster]

On a positive note, 2x MD state champ Gabe Sollars leads the nation in pins for IU.

[wrestlenewbie]

Edited January 19 by wrestlenewbie

[Disco]

7 hours ago, wrestlenewbie said:

Assuming this is Indiana. 

[wrestlenewbie]

7 hours ago, Disco said:

Assuming this is Indiana. 

Correct

[Disco]

11 hours ago, wrestlenewbie said:

Correct

Thanks. If Angel can produce, develop, I’m ok with 1,2 or 3 AA’s per year. Don’t need to win Big. Be in top 15 or 10!os good.  
Do you think Indiana’s coaching can produce this?

[wrestlenewbie]

1 hour ago, Disco said:

Thanks. If Angel can produce, develop, I’m ok with 1,2 or 3 AA’s per year. Don’t need to win Big. Be in top 15 or 10!os good.  
Do you think Indiana’s coaching can produce this?

I remember a wrestler saying they had a facilities problem that makes it tough to recruit. The one time I met Angel Escabedo he seemed like a very nice guy. I would like to see him succeed.

[Disco]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:22 PM, wrestlenewbie said:

I remember a wrestler saying they had a facilities problem that makes it tough to recruit. The one time I met Angel Escabedo he seemed like a very nice guy. I would like to see him succeed.

While the Wilkinson facility is a night and day improvement from the old University High School gym, it’s set up mainly for volleyball. And doesn’t provide any practice area. But I’m  sure several other Big schools aren’t any better. So using the facilities card does not apply here anymore. 
One of the nicest people you would ever encounter is Duane Goldman. 

[BrodyHardcastle]

Pretty nice recruiting class coming in the next two years for the hoosiers. Sam Goin, Lucas Peters(WI state champ), Chris Crawford (Wyoming Sem), Ryan Garvick ( PA Runner up and national ranked, pinned Rhinehart at ironman), Nick Pavlecho (PA placer, top 10 in the country at heavy), Matt Hart ( Ironplacer, beat Brady Ison there), Caleb Marzolino ( PA guy- Fargo AA), Tyler Guerra from IL (2x state placer and ironman placer). They also picked up a few more studs from Ohio. Angel looks to be really trying to get these PA guys that might sit on the bench for a couple years at blueblood schools to come and wrestle for the Hoosiers, which is good news. Should have some decent depth after this year for the next couple seasons. But to answer the question of competing for a B10 title, no not for alongggg time. 

[BrodyHardcastle]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:56 PM, Disco said:

Thanks. If Angel can produce, develop, I’m ok with 1,2 or 3 AA’s per year. Don’t need to win Big. Be in top 15 or 10!os good.  
Do you think Indiana’s coaching can produce this?

Yes I think they can, that’s the ceiling imo though. I just want IU to be able to consistently win duals against teams  like Michigan State, Northwestern, Purdue, Maryland, and maybe beat those better teams every other year like Rutgers, Minnesota, and Illinois. 

[Disco]

11 hours ago, BrodyHardcastle said:

Yes I think they can, that’s the ceiling imo though. I just want IU to be able to consistently win duals against teams  like Michigan State, Northwestern, Purdue, Maryland, and maybe beat those better teams every other year like Rutgers, Minnesota, and Illinois. 

I’m in agreement here. The disparity between the haves vs. the have nots in he big ten is way out of alignment now. 

[Disco]

11 hours ago, BrodyHardcastle said:

Pretty nice recruiting class coming in the next two years for the hoosiers. Sam Goin, Lucas Peters(WI state champ), Chris Crawford (Wyoming Sem), Ryan Garvick ( PA Runner up and national ranked, pinned Rhinehart at ironman), Nick Pavlecho (PA placer, top 10 in the country at heavy), Matt Hart ( Ironplacer, beat Brady Ison there), Caleb Marzolino ( PA guy- Fargo AA), Tyler Guerra from IL (2x state placer and ironman placer). They also picked up a few more studs from Ohio. Angel looks to be really trying to get these PA guys that might sit on the bench for a couple years at blueblood schools to come and wrestle for the Hoosiers, which is good news. Should have some decent depth after this year for the next couple seasons. But to answer the question of competing for a B10 title, no not for alongggg time. 

So who’s responsible here for this influx of talent all of a sudden? Assistants or collaboration of all ?
 

[nk140]

Huge graduating class after this season.  Got both rooks, fongaro,  lee, washington, South, and Witham all graduating.  Maybe they are looking at the possibility of being in the lineup early?  Definitely a good class coming in through recruitment. 

[BrodyHardcastle]

45 minutes ago, Disco said:

So who’s responsible here for this influx of talent all of a sudden? Assistants or collaboration of all ?
 

Angel seems to be on the road running some small camps a lot while doing recruiting so just him  getting out there and making a presence is big I think. Also think they changed up geographically where they were recruiting.