West Central over Rochester??!!

[#watchingithappen]

Any details on the dual? Were the Zebras without wrestlers?

[Y2CJ41]

The details are on the results page or on each team's page.

[jshep86]

47 minutes ago, #watchingithappen said:

Any details on the dual? Were the Zebras without wrestlers?

Not sure if Rochester was missing any but west central has always been a sleeper 1A program and prob one of the smallest 1A schools in indiana. Coach Kenny Nielsen has been head of that program for a very long time and his asst. Nathan Williams wrestled for wc and now coaching and have got the youth program moving with the help of the fritz family! They have 2 seniors whom are twins Drake and hayden fritz that have both been state qualifiers and very talented kids. This tiny school could be a consistent top program in 1A but typically struggles to completely fill roster. Graduating class prob around 45 or so. The coaches here do a tremendous job! 

[ZZ TOP]

Looks like they pulled their 157 twice and bumped some lower weights. And the 157 finished the weekend 6-0 

[M109R]

5 hours ago, #watchingithappen said:

Any details on the dual? Were the Zebras without wrestlers?

Impressive win by West Central any way you look at it . Rochester is a solid team with a win over defending 3A champ Mishawaka. 

[bomber_bob]

Rochester bumped their 138- Basham up to 144. Rodriguez (WC) won by fall. 
 

Rochester bumped their 144 - Schott up to 150. WC’s 150 - Ezra Rodriguez fought off his back for over a minute to end the first period and trailed 5-0 going into the 2nd. Got the fall in the 2nd to seal the dual. 

[Pg_rated]

Anyone want to give their opinion on how this possibly could change up seeding for 1A team state? 

[Clint Gard]

I don't think it will change much, if any at all.  Rochester has wins over 3A #5 and a 2 point loss to 3A #10, who 3A #5 also beat.  We also have a dual win against 2A #7 and we have a tournament 1st place where we out placed 2A #8, 1A #6, and 1A #7.  West Central and Rochester went 7-7 in matches, they got one more fall (tougher team than they look on paper that is for sure).  They are also in the 1A Team State field.

 

Given our wins this year, I think those outweigh our 2 losses and we should be in the #1-#3 seed range.  I don't know who does the seeding...just my 2 cents.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Clint Gard

[bomber_bob]

Agreed with Clint. If anything, it should boost WC into the top 4-5 discussion. Rochester has a great team and resume and shouldn’t be punished with their two blemishes, but WC should be rewarded for their win as well. 
 

WC is very solid at 1A from 120-150. 2 State Qualifiers, a SSQ, and several tough freshmen. 

[Gdunham149]

1 hour ago, bomber_bob said:

Agreed with Clint. If anything, it should boost WC into the top 4-5 discussion. Rochester has a great team and resume and shouldn’t be punished with their two blemishes, but WC should be rewarded for their win as well. 
 

WC is very solid at 1A from 120-150. 2 State Qualifiers, a SSQ, and several tough freshmen. 

Just another way that will make 1A team state exciting. 

[Faithcoach]

1A team state is going to be amazing this season! There are a lot of VERY talented teams in the tournament! I can't wait! 

[Pg_rated]

I agree 1A will be exciting. Also forgot to congratulate WC on the win over Rochester. I feel bad for whoever has to seed this. I know South Adams could have beat Adam Central earlier this year but South Adam’s had their stud out that weekend and ended up loosing by 6. I think whoever shows up hungriest that day in the top 6 will win. 

[Faithcoach]

Absolutely! This is our first year attending! I'll be very curious to see how seeding goes! 

[Y2CJ41]

Head to heads should be taken heavily into consideration in all classes. Beating a team straight up should count for a lot when it comes to seeding. If it doesn't then we will have to rethink what it means to seed the event.

[casualwrestlingfan]

10 minutes ago, Pg_rated said:

I agree 1A will be exciting. Also forgot to congratulate WC on the win over Rochester. I feel bad for whoever has to seed this. I know South Adams could have beat Adam Central earlier this year but South Adam’s had their stud out that weekend and ended up loosing by 6. I think whoever shows up hungriest that day in the top 6 will win. 

Very true, but you should also mention it was AC's first matches of the season coming from a short amount of practice as well. Football & wrestling shape are 2 different things. Definitely noticeable for the AC wrestlers as well as the basketball and swim team members that were on the football team. Hope SA & AC both make noise at team state. Too bad 1A & 2A aren't together so we could also see Bellmont hopefully make a 2A title run.

[Pg_rated]

1 minute ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

Very true, but you should also mention it was AC's first matches of the season coming from a short amount of practice as well. Football & wrestling shape are 2 different things. Definitely noticeable for the AC wrestlers as well as the basketball and swim team members that were on the football team. Hope SA & AC both make noise at team state. Too bad 1A & 2A aren't together so we could also see Bellmont hopefully make a 2A title run.

Fair enough… I’m not sure that came in to play in too many matches.. I would agree that Adam’s county is trending in the right direction with all 3 high schools being very dangerous. 

[casualwrestlingfan]

Just now, Pg_rated said:

Fair enough… I’m not sure that came in to play in too many matches.. I would agree that Adam’s county is trending in the right direction with all 3 high schools being very dangerous. 

I think a couple AC losses in that one were a result of early season & lack of wrestling conditioning. Especially 2 that ended up in falls for SA where AC had decent leads. Do think it could be a toss up again if they both meet up. AC looked closer to wrestling shape against Bellmont but still a bit to go yet. Having Robert, Sawyer, & Humble is huge for SA. I know they have some others with IN Tech ties helping as well. If Adams County is well represented at state, I'd be curious where the combined total of all 3 would fall in the points race.

[Gdunham149]

A couple of our early season losses came from not having everyone in the lineup yet also. I think the seeding will be difficult for 1A, which in turn will make it even more fun and exciting. Anyone can beat anyone. 

[ZZ TOP]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:26 PM, Pg_rated said:

Anyone want to give their opinion on how this possibly could change up seeding for 1A team state? 

I’ll try…..

Adams Central

Tell City

South Adams 

Rochester

West Central 

 

[Pg_rated]

17 minutes ago, ZZ TOP said:

I’ll try…..

Adams Central

Tell City

South Adams 

Rochester

West Central 

 

Can I ask a question? How does Rochester get seeded in front of west central? Just curious

[X_R A T E D]

When it comes to seeding 1A, historically it has been hard to seed and predict correct the 1-8 standings. I think most years we know the favorites but there isn't a lot of data to support who will finish 1-8 due to a lot of factors. There is some data to use like how lineups that are shown in the season before team state match up with other teams and common opponents through transitive relation. That is subjective data and a guess at best when trying to see how a dual will be predicted. The only true objective data to use is a head to head dual between teams and as Joe said, they should be weighed very heavily. SA was 1 match away from beating AC with one of the top guys not wrestling for SA that day and that doesn't matter. AC won the head to head dual and should 100% be seeded above SA. The answer for seeding should be to seed with objective data for as many as possible and use subjective data and opinions whenever you run out of objective data to use. Every year there is limited objective data which is why a committee is needed to seed team state in all 4 classes. Just my opinion on seeding for all classes and I'm excited for Team State for all 4 classes this year. We should have a lot of great matches in 2 weeks. 

[Clint Gard]

3 hours ago, ZZ TOP said:

I’ll try…..

Adams Central

Tell City

South Adams 

Rochester

West Central 

 

You also can’t just assume certain teams jump in front of teams like Prairie Heights, who lost a pretty close dual with AC.  And, Tell City has no head to heads with any 1A teams in the field in duals or tourneys so how do they automatically get the 2nd seed?  Having said that I think TC is a top 3 seed but those are all things to consider.  I don’t think this is as clear cut as some think it is. What do I know

Edited December 28, 2023 by Clint Gard

[rookie78]

8 minutes ago, Clint Gard said:

You also can’t just assume certain teams jump in front of teams like Prairie Heights, who lost a pretty close dual with AC.  And, Tell City has no head to heads with any 1A teams in the field in duals or tourneys so how do they automatically get the 2nd seed?  Having said that I think TC is a top 3 seed but those are all things to consider.  I don’t think this is a clear cut as some think it is. What do I know

For sure a close dual with ph and ac.....unfortunately our 113 missed weight and we didn't have a fill in that day......who knows, that dual could have been the other way around.

 

Regardless, 1A should probably be one of the most competitive fields across the board this year.

[CoachFrepan]

Very loosely related, I wish you luck @Clint Gard.  I went to the Manchester Wrestling Camp in 94/95 (I believe) with a fading love of wrestling, and you and others reignited it.  I’m now a middle school coach(in my 11th season) at Brownsburg, and credit you as one of the influences that made me passionate about the sport. One thing about wrestling is that it always works itself out.  Forums don’t influence results.  Be well and good luck to your team… and thank you for your mentorship, even if you didn’t realize it was happening.

[ZZ TOP]

9 hours ago, Pg_rated said:

Can I ask a question? How does Rochester get seeded in front of west central? Just curious

Because IMO Rochester has a stronger schedule and the tournament they both just attended Rochester went 7-1 and WC went 5-3. Granted WC beat Rochester but if Rochester hadn’t spotted them 6 points at 138 I believe Rochester wins.