MD ‘02 and ‘03 vs. CP ‘22 and ‘23

[MUSKEEWRESTLER]

Same.  Sent my kid all the way through the Catholic school system and paid full price.  Worked a part time job to make the extra $.  I only wish the recruiting was as good as they say.

[ReformedPoster]

14 hours ago, SLAPtheMAT1313 said:

Only Mater Dei kids is an interesting assertion...

Isn't Mater Dei a small, private, Catholic institution without geographic borders or townships, etc...that is able to offer scholarships as it sees fit??

It is not an interesting assertion.  It is a fact.  Hunter May is the only kid on the team that did not grow up in the feeder system.  An occasional transfer happens (May, Critchfield, Hayhurst), but that is more recent.  Going back to those dominant teams from the 90's-00's, they were all kids that came up through the MD feeder system.

 

Yes, MD is a small Catholic institution.  But no scholarships are offered.  Students that are not from a west side parish pay nearly 50% more in tuition than a student from a west side parish.

[SLAPtheMAT1313]

 

 

I guess I should not "over generalize" and make assumptions.  The two-thirds of students that received scholarships must have been for academics or faith based and the 30+ years of dominant wrestling, football, girls volleyball and soccer were happy little accidents, "Bob Ross Style"

It truly doesnt matter if they pay you or you pay them, it was a choice.  So like minded families and individuals were able to come together and fill a wrestling room/school to push that talent up...Iron sharpens Iron

It is NOT a short cut or anything like that, the success is built of great coaching and individuals hours of blood, sweat, and tears that created your schools success!

But, you can't claim it as a more pure scenario than open enrollment!!  You could bring together anyone willing to pay the tuition as a private school, so however it was afforded, you were able to benefit from that option for several decades before open enrollment was given to all.  Essentially you've been a small Southern Indiana private wrestling academy.  I'd challenge you to talk to some of the other coaches from Evansville and say New Albany and see if they don't feel like they've lost some talent along the years..Mater Dei's success is a draw, others see it and want it, congrats for that, it's awesome!  But don't downplay others for more recent success...thats the point

 

 

 

 

[TakeTheShot]

MD's strength has always been its depth, especially during those early 2000s teams.  In any dual they could expose another team's weakness but "pulling a kid off the bench." and beat a state placer so one of their state finalists could bump up a weight (or 2) and beat another team's state champ.

 

So many top 8 (or better) guys have gone through MD and never actually placed at state or only did it once, when they could have multiple times due to the quality of the guys wrestling ahead of them.

 

That's why I don't really think you should consider a team by the guys who "should have": been there.  Those guys need to make the weight, keep the grades, not do things they shouldn't be doing.  Next man up, that's part of the difference between team and individual champs.

[Ahawkeye]

3 hours ago, SLAPtheMAT1313 said:

 

 

I guess I should not "over generalize" and make assumptions.  The two-thirds of students that received scholarships must have been for academics or faith based and the 30+ years of dominant wrestling, football, girls volleyball and soccer were happy little accidents, "Bob Ross Style"

It truly doesnt matter if they pay you or you pay them, it was a choice.  So like minded families and individuals were able to come together and fill a wrestling room/school to push that talent up...Iron sharpens Iron

It is NOT a short cut or anything like that, the success is built of great coaching and individuals hours of blood, sweat, and tears that created your schools success!

But, you can't claim it as a more pure scenario than open enrollment!!  You could bring together anyone willing to pay the tuition as a private school, so however it was afforded, you were able to benefit from that option for several decades before open enrollment was given to all.  Essentially you've been a small Southern Indiana private wrestling academy.  I'd challenge you to talk to some of the other coaches from Evansville and say New Albany and see if they don't feel like they've lost some talent along the years..Mater Dei's success is a draw, others see it and want it, congrats for that, it's awesome!  But don't downplay others for more recent success...thats the point

 

 

 

 

Tuition assistance is now offer through the state. Back then there was no tuition assistance except for extreme situations. Almost anyone can recieve state provided tuition assistance today unless you make a boatload of money.

[maligned]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, R. Kendrick said:

 

Everything is better in 2023- nutrition is better, medical care for athletes is better, the overall wrestling product is better today than it was 20 years ago.   But the level of dominance over the field now vs. what they did back then is not comparable.

 

I understand these points, but I'd have 2 responses:

 

1. The nutrition and other elements point is a side issue. We're talking about in context by era, which even you mention. Don't distract us.

 

2. This "level of dominance" talk is getting greatly exaggerated because there was no worthy #2 or #3 (or #'s 4 thru 10) in the state. If we truly want to talk about context, we need to talk in terms of NATIONAL and overall context. Indiana is WAY better in the national discussion now compared to then. We have 3 teams in the top 35 when we've had zero or one per year until the past couple seasons for as long as I've followed wrestling closely (30 years). Every one of our guys under the lights is now a Division 1 talent--when in the 90s and early 2000s we'd usually only have 3 or 4 per year. Lastly, just look at CP's national ranking: as high as #6 and in the top 10 all year. EMD was in the 15 to 20 range. EMD's 2003 team was definitely the best I'd ever seen in context until the past 2 years--but CP have passed them, both in terms of duals ability and as a tournament team in the NATIONAL context.

[ReformedPoster]

7 hours ago, SLAPtheMAT1313 said:

 

 

I guess I should not "over generalize" and make assumptions.  The two-thirds of students that received scholarships must have been for academics or faith based and the 30+ years of dominant wrestling, football, girls volleyball and soccer were happy little accidents, "Bob Ross Style"

It truly doesnt matter if they pay you or you pay them, it was a choice.  So like minded families and individuals were able to come together and fill a wrestling room/school to push that talent up...Iron sharpens Iron

It is NOT a short cut or anything like that, the success is built of great coaching and individuals hours of blood, sweat, and tears that created your schools success!

But, you can't claim it as a more pure scenario than open enrollment!!  You could bring together anyone willing to pay the tuition as a private school, so however it was afforded, you were able to benefit from that option for several decades before open enrollment was given to all.  Essentially you've been a small Southern Indiana private wrestling academy.  I'd challenge you to talk to some of the other coaches from Evansville and say New Albany and see if they don't feel like they've lost some talent along the years..Mater Dei's success is a draw, others see it and want it, congrats for that, it's awesome!  But don't downplay others for more recent success...thats the point

 

 

 

 

In the last 30 years, show me the dominance in football (2 state titles in school history and they have owned the sectional since Southridge got bumped up to 3A), volleyball (been to state once and that was in 1985), soccer (girls 3-peated from '17-'19 and have been average since, boys have never been dominant).  MD has been "dominant" in one sport.  Wrestling.  The other sports that have won titles are few and far between.  I guess all the tuition assistance money is going straight to the wrestling team and none of the other sports.

[BIGCATSontheMAT]

If MD is “recruiting” they must be pretty damn bad at it. Because MD football team has not had a d1 caliber player in idk how long 

[Ahawkeye]

CP has a hell of a team no doubt, the MD teams were great teams as well. My only argument is someone thinking those MD teams were recruited.  When we get old and die we will be able to watch the greatest wrestling meet in Indiana history. Mater Dei team of your choice vs CP team of your choice until then all we are doing is arguing over something we'll never REALLY know until God puts those two teams on a mat in front of us.