Jayruss Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Andrew Howe is an amazing wrestler and belongs on the Mount Rushmore of Indiana's best wrestlers, but I think Jason Tsirtsis is going to be the better wrestler here, and might just be our best wrestler of all-time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 NOT YET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayruss Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't see why you can't start the convo, he ended the year with a national championship, so at this point we can begin the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I'm just glad I have seen them wrasse for allot of years/ let's hope we see them both in rio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgetman Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Andrew Howe is an amazing wrestler and belongs on the Mount Rushmore of Indiana's best wrestlers, but I think Jason Tsirtsis is going to be the better wrestler here, and might just be our best wrestler of all-time! I hope he's able to continue and achieve that title! I'm rooting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I had deja vu watching Howe's match. It was Jarrod King all over again. Howe moved forward, forcing the action, Perry backed up, backed up, backed up, stepped out of bounds. Reset. Rinse and repeat, then take one or two well-timed shots when Howe is expecting the same old retreat. Also like the King match, Howe's mat wrestling just wasn't up to snuff. Granted, Perry is one of the most dominating top-men I've seen at that weight, but Howe knew he wasn't going to win in on the mat. This may be just sour grapes, but Perry's style is absolutely dreadful to watch. Effective? yes. Worse than watching paint dry? yes. I'm sure he couldn't care less about opinions like mine as he's celebrating another title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 This may be just sour grapes, but Perry's style is absolutely dreadful to watch. Effective? yes. Worse than watching paint dry? yes. I'm sure he couldn't care less about opinions like mine as he's celebrating another title. Yes is was like the King match all over again. Howe, just seemed to drowned in quicksand and couldn't climb himself out. As someone else said someplace I think that early stalling call against Perry may have been the best thing to happen to him. Without it Perry may have just grinded in neutral and Howe many have been able to find a way to capitalize for the match winnning score. However, the all gave Perry a moment to realize what he needed to do in order to win and what his coaches had been telling him to do. After the call you see Perry actually go after Howe on a few occasions and take shots. I'm not sure Andrew expected this too happen, and the result was some Perry takedowns. Then as you said on top Perry did his thing on top and let the clock tick away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Can Jason be as good as Howe is right now--I think without a doubt. But I think Howe has taken a couple tiny steps back in the past couple years on the heels of all his injuries. I think he was one of the 3 or 4 best wrestlers in America at any level a couple years ago, but I'm not sure he's there now. Can Jason be as good as Howe was at the height of his powers? That's a much bigger question. Only his level of work ethic and time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 ...This may be just sour grapes, but Perry's style is absolutely dreadful to watch... Really! How much of Perry have you seen? He is a very exciting wrestler to watch. When you have two wrestlers of that caliber they are both going to be cautious. Even David Taylor wrestled cautious last year against Dake. Perry knew that Howe had the advantage on their feet & he had the advantage on the mat. I fully expected to see exactly what we saw, it was a smart game plan going in for Perry. But then the early stalling call put Perry on the aggressive & Howe was not able to take advantage. Perry beat him where he was supposed to have the advantage. I badly wanted Howe to win, but Perry was simply the better wrestler Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 unfortunately, I've seen a lot more Perry matches than I would have liked. I'm curious whether you have, because he frequently wrestles exactly the way he wrestled against Howe. Check out his matches on the road to his NCAA title last year.Nothing on his feet against better competition, backs up, backs up, out of bounds. Rides pretty much everyone for as long as he wants, seldom turns decent wrestlers, wins in OT via the rideout. It's highly effective, and extremely conservative and boring. No one said it's poor strategy, and he's not the only good wrestler who does it, but it's not the most enjoyable watching. Huge difference between aesthetically pleasing and effective, so I get why he does it, but there are plenty of 'experts' who cover wrestling for a living who feel the same about Perry. I would invite you to try to convince a new wrestling viewer that Perry's style is exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 unfortunately, I've seen a lot more Perry matches than I would have liked. I'm curious whether you have, because he frequently wrestles exactly the way he wrestled against Howe. Check out his matches on the road to his NCAA title last year.Nothing on his feet against better competition, backs up, backs up, out of bounds. Rides pretty much everyone for as long as he wants, seldom turns decent wrestlers, wins in OT via the rideout. It's highly effective, and extremely conservative and boring. No one said it's poor strategy, and he's not the only good wrestler who does it, but it's not the most enjoyable watching. Huge difference between aesthetically pleasing and effective, so I get why he does it, but there are plenty of 'experts' who cover wrestling for a living who feel the same about Perry. I would invite you to try to convince a new wrestling viewer that Perry's style is exciting. OK, you might be spot on about him and his style against the top collegiate wrestlers in the nation. BTW, did you enjoy watching Tsirtsis wrestle this past weekend? I did! I also very much enjoyed watching Howe compete & represent the state of Indiana, unfortunately Perry simply was better Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Tsirtsis was amazing. He beat 4 2014 All-Americans, including the #1 seed, a national champ last year and, obviously, the eventual runner-up. His one non-AA opponent was tough senior Busler. Although he won several matches in OT, he consistently attacked in neutral during all his matches. I don't disagree that Perry was better than Howe when it mattered most. I just don't care for his style, even as effective as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Tsirtsis was amazing. He beat 4 2014 All-Americans, including the #1 seed, a national champ last year and, obviously, the eventual runner-up. His one non-AA opponent was tough senior Busler. Although he won several matches in OT, he consistently attacked in neutral during all his matches. I don't disagree that Perry was better than Howe when it mattered most. I just don't care for his style, even as effective as it is. I completely agree that Tsirtsis was amazing. And he won (5) matches by a combined score of 15-7 with (3) in OT, (3) by 1 pt, (1) by 2 pts & (1) by 3 pts. By comparison Perry won (5) matches by a combined score of 30-5 with (2) MD's, (2) 4-0 decisions & (1) in OT. And I just find it interesting that you were amazed by Tsirtsis but were bored by Perry. ...sour grapes perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think one of the things that made Stevan so attractive to the D1 programs in addition to his top flight talent is the fact that he is possibly a four year 125#. He's 130# occasionally now. We were just having the red shirt conversation last night and it looks like he may take one this coming year. It was offered in his deal, and he would clearly benefit from the extra year. Most of the coaches believe he is technically ahead of any IN wrestlers when they came out of HS and that his overall game is D1 ready now. But IMO he could get a little more on his frame to help him stand up to the big ten schedule. Last April-May in his trip to Champaign he was just a bit behind Delgado on his feet he did take him down though and was 50-50 with Zain Richards so in his mind I think he wants to compete now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If Micic is taking down Delgado Northwestern would be idiotic to redshirt him this year. They would have three legitimate national champ contenders(Micic, Tsirtsis, McMullen) along with a few others that are solid AA candidates in Harger, Polizzi, Sliga, and Munster. That right there is a team bringing home a trophy and possibly a first place one if they get two or three AA's out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If Micic is taking down Delgado Northwestern would be idiotic to redshirt him this year. They would have three legitimate national champ contenders(Micic, Tsirtsis, McMullen) along with a few others that are solid AA candidates in Harger, Polizzi, Sliga, and Munster. That right there is a team bringing home a trophy and possibly a first place one if they get two or three AA's out of it. Sssshhh....redshirting him improves the chances for a national title for my buddies wearing scarlet and gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaMudflap Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Have a hard time believing Micic is taking down Jesse Delgado. Didn't Iowa backup Thomas Gilman beat him 5-0, 5-0 and Northern Iowa's Dylan Peters pinned him. Those guys are tough, but a far cry from Jesse Delgado, Nahshon Garrett, Nico Megaludis, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Have a hard time believing Micic is taking down Jesse Delgado. Didn't Iowa backup Thomas Gilman beat him 5-0, 5-0 and Northern Iowa's Dylan Peters pinned him. Those guys are tough, but a far cry from Jesse Delgado, Nahshon Garrett, Nico Megaludis, etc. You are a knowledgeable wrestling fan from your posts, so I'm not trying to insult you here, but you are talking totally different styles of wrestling. It was pointed out that Delgado would be an awful Freestyle wrestler because of his style, so I don't think Micic getting beat in Freestyle necessarily translates to folkstyle. I will say that while I don't have any meat to support my opinion, I don't think Micic beats Delgado in folkstyle at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You can watch each match to judge for yourself vs. Gilman vs. Peters With freestyle being a lot on your feet I think this is a great way to tell how kids will fair at the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You can watch each match to judge for yourself vs. Gilman vs. Peters With freestyle being a lot on your feet I think this is a great way to tell how kids will fair at the next level. That looks like a man wrestling a boy. It is a year later and the opponents Stevan has wrestled have obviously made him look better, so I'm sure my point of view is skewed at bit, but I'd have to say he'd wrestler that match better today than he did that day. I'd like to see him redshirt from a Micic fan's perspective. It was always difficult for me to watch Alex getting beat so often at the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That looks like a man wrestling a boy. Yeah...the match hadn't even started and you could see what was going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Redshirting is most likely the best option for Micic. However, if he is a legitimate title contender as MCKAJC is hinting at, Northwestern needs him in the lineup next year. They have a really strong senior class and add in Tsirtsis, Micic, Sliga and others they are a top 3 team in the NCAAs next year. Without Micic they are a 5-10 team. If I were a coach at Northwestern and thought Micic was a title contender he is wrestling as a true freshman as being a trophy team at Northwestern is a rare occurrence. Along the same lines both Gilman and Peters have probably improved tremendously over the past year also. Peters looked HUGE at NCAAs and Gilman had some great matches including beating Delgado and Peters this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Why did this thread turn into a Micic at NW discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I completely agree that Tsirtsis was amazing. And he won (5) matches by a combined score of 15-7 with (3) in OT, (3) by 1 pt, (1) by 2 pts & (1) by 3 pts. By comparison Perry won (5) matches by a combined score of 30-5 with (2) MD's, (2) 4-0 decisions & (1) in OT. And I just find it interesting that you were amazed by Tsirtsis but were bored by Perry. ...sour grapes perhaps? Perry has always wrestled in this fashion, and, just because a match goes to OT doesn't mean a wrestler isn't attacking. Perry, however, has two titles to his credit, and yet he's done it primarily by being able to hold down his opponents, generally without any backpoints or threats to turn his opponent. His style is the epitome of 'boring' wrestling. Again, credit is due for all of his success, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not exciting wrestling. I don't blame him for taking advantage of the rules, but a style like that is never going to attract new fans and viewers. There are others who wrestle in this way, but Perry is the worst offender, IMO. I get it, you like seeing a guy ride his opponent without turning him, for very long periods of time. I just don't happen to care for his style and there are plenty of other wrestling fans who agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Have a hard time believing Micic is taking down Jesse Delgado. Didn't Iowa backup Thomas Gilman beat him 5-0, 5-0 and Northern Iowa's Dylan Peters pinned him. Those guys are tough, but a far cry from Jesse Delgado, Nahshon Garrett, Nico Megaludis, etc. I'm really not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing some first hand info. Believe what you want. But, exactly how far a cry is Gilman from Delgado? Gilman did win the midlands this year and in the process beat Delgado in the semis. So... It's going to be up to Stevan and his peeps in regards to him taking a RS this year. Im sure the NW coaching staff will abide by what ever he decides just as they did JT. I get the impression talking with them that most of the people around Stevan would like to see him take the RS, but he seems to be leaning the other way. That's just my impression, I've not heard anything for sure. Should be interesting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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