So lets begin the Tsirtsis is better than Howe talk

[IndianaMudflap]

He was also pinned by Sam Brancale, who failed to qualify for NCAA's, and Gilman himself was a paying customer in OKC.  Stevan is great, but let's allow him to make his own name before we declare him NCAA Champion is all I'm saying..

 

Also, by all accounts, Freestyle is Stevan's best and favorite style (MCKAJC even made a post this preseason questioning whether Stevan would even wrestle the HS season).  The 5-0, 5-0 loss to Gilman and the loss by fall to Peters in Stevan's best style don't translate all that well to the college game, which is wrestled in a style that RWA insiders like MCKAJC allude Stevan is less interested in.

[MCKAJC]

He was also pinned by Sam Brancale, who failed to qualify for NCAA's, and Gilman himself was a paying customer in OKC.  Stevan is great, but let's allow him to make his own name before we declare him NCAA Champion is all I'm saying..

 

Also, by all accounts, Freestyle is Stevan's best and favorite style (MCKAJC even made a post this preseason questioning whether Stevan would even wrestle the HS season).  The 5-0, 5-0 loss to Gilman and the loss by fall to Peters in Stevan's best style don't translate all that well to the college game, which is wrestled in a style that RWA insiders like MCKAJC allude Stevan is less interested in.

I agree. I don't want to put the cart before the horse either. Time is on his side right now. Gilman did watch due to his RS this year. I think you could see in both of the posted matches with Gilman and Peters strength and maturity seemed to be a big factor. I think Gilman is a major player next year at 125 or 133.

[NICfan]

I'm not saying Micic is going to win an NCAA title or even AA if he doesn't redshirt,  but he was wrestling against college 125lbers, he just finished his season at 113. Now if he were to wrestle against college wrestlers it'd be a much better example, even if he has a year to add size.

[SIACfan]

Perry has always wrestled in this fashion, and, just because a match goes to OT doesn't mean a wrestler isn't attacking. Perry, however, has two titles to his credit, and yet he's done it primarily by being able to hold down his opponents, generally without any backpoints or threats to turn his opponent. His style is the epitome of 'boring' wrestling. Again, credit is due for all of his success, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not exciting wrestling. I don't blame him for taking advantage of the rules, but a style like that is never going to attract new fans and viewers. There are others who wrestle in this way, but Perry is the worst offender, IMO. I get it, you like seeing a guy ride his opponent without turning him, for very long periods of time. I just don't happen to care for his style and there are plenty of other wrestling fans who agree.

 

Alright, you are entitled to your opinion. I actually agree (against top level competition anyway) that Perry rides simply to ride, but I would point out that many collegiate wrestlers employ this tactic. Some may be more obvious about it than others but the intention is still the same. I would also point out that the ability to ride top level opponents is a very important skill set to possess in college wrestling. One of the things I love about college wrestling (and folkstyle in general) is that it is important to be good on your feet and on the mat.

 

My main reason for debating with you on this topic stems from the comment in your initial post about 'sour grapes'. I just feel that it is 'sour grapes' that forms the basis of your opinion. I can't help but think that if Perry hailed from Indiana that your opinion might be slightly different. That is why I brought up Tsirtsis, and your response was exactly what I expected. You immediately defended him and his style even though I never actually criticized him, because you new as soon as I mentioned how I enjoyed watching him this past weekend what I was insinuating. Now I'm not saying that their styles a truly similar, but against top level competition Tsirtsis is also guilty of riding simply to ride. I would also argue that he was not as aggressive on his feet as you have claimed. He does a good job of holding his ground, not retreating, staying technically sound & not allowing even top level competition to take him down. But in his last (3) matches he made very few if any real committed attempts at takedowns until SV, and even then he was cautious & was willing to let the outcome of the match come down to the 30 second tiebreaker periods. He won two of his OT matches because of his ability to ride his opponent & not be ridden. I am not trying to take anything away form Tsirtsis (I thought he was amazing). I just feel that you are not giving Perry the credit he also deserves. Maybe you do not believe so, but you are degrading his accomplishments by insulting his style.

 

And lastly, I hate to bust your bubble but not even the most exciting wrestlers (such as David Taylor) are going to attract new fans/viewers. There may be the rare exception and the robust wrestling community here or there, but for the most part wrestling fans are comprised of ex-wrestlers and/or people who have friends or relatives that wrestle.

[Caleb Spires]

I'm not saying Micic is going to win an NCAA title or even AA if he doesn't redshirt,  but he was wrestling against college 125lbers, he just finished his season at 113. Now if he were to wrestle against college wrestlers it'd be a much better example, even if he has a year to add size.

Agreed. I think last summer may not be that reliable of a measuring stick of where he'll be in college. He seemed to even improve a lot from the beginning of his senior season to the end.

[Dingo Brigade]

Alright, you are entitled to your opinion. I actually agree (against top level competition anyway) that Perry rides simply to ride, but I would point out that many collegiate wrestlers employ this tactic. Some may be more obvious about it than others but the intention is still the same. I would also point out that the ability to ride top level opponents is a very important skill set to possess in college wrestling. One of the things I love about college wrestling (and folkstyle in general) is that it is important to be good on your feet and on the mat.

 

My main reason for debating with you on this topic stems from the comment in your initial post about 'sour grapes'. I just feel that it is 'sour grapes' that forms the basis of your opinion. I can't help but think that if Perry hailed from Indiana that your opinion might be slightly different. That is why I brought up Tsirtsis, and your response was exactly what I expected. You immediately defended him and his style even though I never actually criticized him, because you new as soon as I mentioned how I enjoyed watching him this past weekend what I was insinuating. Now I'm not saying that their styles a truly similar, but against top level competition Tsirtsis is also guilty of riding simply to ride. I would also argue that he was not as aggressive on his feet as you have claimed. He does a good job of holding his ground, not retreating, staying technically sound & not allowing even top level competition to take him down. But in his last (3) matches he made very few if any real committed attempts at takedowns until SV, and even then he was cautious & was willing to let the outcome of the match come down to the 30 second tiebreaker periods. He won two of his OT matches because of his ability to ride his opponent & not be ridden. I am not trying to take anything away form Tsirtsis (I thought he was amazing). I just feel that you are not giving Perry the credit he also deserves. Maybe you do not believe so, but you are degrading his accomplishments by insulting his style.

 

And lastly, I hate to bust your bubble but not even the most exciting wrestlers (such as David Taylor) are going to attract new fans/viewers. There may be the rare exception and the robust wrestling community here or there, but for the most part wrestling fans are comprised of ex-wrestlers and/or people who have friends or relatives that wrestle.

haha, ok hang on to the sour grapes comment and ignore a lot of factual comments. To compare Perry's style with Tsirtsis' is absolutely laughable. You brought up Tsirtsis in response to my opinion of Perry and now you're passively-aggressively claiming you weren't comparing them. I'm sort of unable to take you seriously. The more I read your responses, the more convinced I am that you just don't follow the sport too closely  and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinions, even when they seem to contradict each other. I have fully acknowledged Perry's accomplishments, so, again, I think you're confusing your passion for Perry for my critique of his style...and not his accomplishments. Lastly, wrestlers like Burroughs, Dake, Taylor and Ruth have obtained massive amounts of mainstream coverage...so your final comments really show a lack of awareness of the sport. No big deal, but you're kind of all over the place and not really making a lot of cogent points.