bog190 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 if this is true then we should have 6 classes and that would make 96 state qualifiers per weight class and that should get more kids coming out because they see the success of their friends then there would be more scholarships handed out since there would be 84 state champions in indiana Except in his argument he stated 2 classes would be perfect. Not 6, 5, 4, or 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well, I knew this was coming, was just hoping it would wait til after the season, now what will we talk about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well, I knew this was coming, was just hoping it would wait til after the season, now what will we talk about? "move-ins" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Except in his argument he stated 2 classes would be perfect. Not 6, 5, 4, or 3. he also said having state qualifiers will boost the sport so i say the more the merrier if more state qualifiers will really make the sport better then why shouldnt we have as many state qualifiers as humanly possible or are you now saying that its not the case??? madison had 11 wrestlers at sectionals and took third at sectionals taking 8 to regionals placing 6 with two champs at regionals they won team regionals and then had two semi state finalists with one champion how is this possible with such small numbers since big schools have such an advantage in an INDIVIDUAL sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 he also said having state qualifiers will boost the sport so i say the more the merrier if more state qualifiers will really make the sport better then why shouldnt we have as many state qualifiers as humanly possible or are you now saying that its not the case??? madison had 11 wrestlers at sectionals and took third at sectionals taking 8 to regionals placing 6 with two champs at regionals they won team regionals and then had two semi state finalists with one champion how is this possible with such small numbers since big schools have such an advantage in an INDIVIDUAL sport Again, you are making an extreme argument. The competition becomes too watered down with too many participants,as any reasonable person would acknowledge. The competition would not be too watered down with 2 classes. Who said it was impossible to be successful at a small school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that is the whole point if you water it down at all you are then removing the significance the guys at the small school winning. if you are an amazing wrestler and you destroy everyone in your division but never get to showcase your skills against the entire field you have now watered it down too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My question after looking at this data is if the data is proportional to the number of kids wrestling. The majority of 3A schools fill their lineup... In 2A there are les teams with a full lineup... And in 1A there is even more teams that do not have a full lineup... So if there are less wrestlers in 1A then shouldn't they have less state qualifiers than 3A or 2A? 1A and 2A teams that consistently have full lineups tend to perform well and have some state qualifiers and placers on a regular basis ( Adams Central, Yorktown, South Adams, Jay County, Garrett, etc..) Is it all proportional ? This is a great question. I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that is the whole point if you water it down at all you are then removing the significance the guys at the small school winning. if you are an amazing wrestler and you destroy everyone in your division but never get to showcase your skills against the entire field you have now watered it down too much Yes, winning state in a 2 class system would be demoralizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This is a great question. I was thinking the same thing. this is our logic but the multi class supporters will then just say that proves the reasoning for classes when i think it proves that you dont need classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes, winning state in a 2 class system would be demoralizing. i never said demoralizing but no one wants to share a state title if you have worked that hard to stand on the top of the podium you dont want to stand on the top of the podium only to watch someone else get the exact same award its like the Olympics now where there is no third place match two thirds stand on the podium together kinda silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 i dont even think you can call it a state title in a classed state its really a division title because there is no state champion decided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 this is our logic but the multi class supporters will then just say that proves the reasoning for classes when i think it proves that you dont need classes I support the growth of the sport in our state. I would like to see how many 1A had a 90 percent full line up for sectionals because that will change the number of coarse you will draw a lower number from less participants. Not at 3A schools have full rosters either but I would guess the number is much lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Who are the 12 1A wrestlers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 not sure i would assume the 106 from new washington is one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My question after looking at this data is if the data is proportional to the number of kids wrestling. The majority of 3A schools fill their lineup... In 2A there are les teams with a full lineup... And in 1A there is even more teams that do not have a full lineup... So if there are less wrestlers in 1A then shouldn't they have less state qualifiers than 3A or 2A? 1A and 2A teams that consistently have full lineups tend to perform well and have some state qualifiers and placers on a regular basis ( Adams Central, Yorktown, South Adams, Jay County, Garrett, etc..) Is it proportional, or is partly the reason small schools don't fill their line-ups is the discuoragement factor that they hava an exremeley remote chance of sending a kid to state. 12 kids went from 1A, so out of 104 1A schools thats 11.5% of the schools that qualify a kid to the state tournament. How many kids dont go out in 1A as they know they'll achieve top success. Is it all proportional ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wrestling Scholar, I guess it is the chicken or the egg question... Some small schools struggle to fill their lineup, thus having fewer wrestlers with the chance to qualify for state. I can not say why they do not fill their lineup.. Many small schools have had a wrestler or two have huge success but that did not transfer into more kids wanting to wrestle... I do not however see it disparaging that the 1A kids qualify at a lower percent... The percent seems to be relatively equal to the number of wrestlers in the other classes and their state qualifiers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 maybe we should class the olympics smaller countries should have just as much chance to medals as larger countries lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 maybe we should class the olympics smaller countries should have just as much chance to medals as larger countries lol Same tired arguments. The Olympics vs high school sports great comparison. Shows how short sighted you are and really how much people don't care about the growth if this sport. Illinois just recently went to the classes from two. We are one of only a handful of states that is not classed. Why were many state classing wrestling in the 60's and 70's? How come wrestling hasn't died in those states with class wrestling if it is so detrimental? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Same tired arguments. The Olympics vs high school sports great comparison. Shows how short sighted you are and really how much people don't care about the growth if this sport. Illinois just recently went to the classes from two. We are one of only a handful of states that is not classed. Why were many state classing wrestling in the 60's and 70's? How come wrestling hasn't died in those states with class wrestling if it is so detrimental? Joe- our current system is GREAT! What else is there to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Great for what? Great for the big schools, why yes. Great for stunting the growth of the sport, why yes. Great for making it near impossible for a small school to have success, why yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Funny how bad class wrestling is yet you never hear of states going back to single class...things that make you go hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Same tired arguments. The Olympics vs high school sports great comparison. Shows how short sighted you are and really how much people don't care about the growth if this sport. Illinois just recently went to the classes from two. We are one of only a handful of states that is not classed. Why were many state classing wrestling in the 60's and 70's? How come wrestling hasn't died in those states with class wrestling if it is so detrimental? i didnt say it would hurt the sport of wrestling. but it will hurt the competition in indiana. and how is looking at the global scale of the olympics short sighted??? two classes would not change indiana wrestling in any way except it would cost more money because you would be giving out twice the awards at state finals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I suppose the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" crowd are getting to bankers life on their donkey cart. I'll take a nice modern automobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 i didnt say it would hurt the sport of wrestling. but it will hurt the competition in indiana. and how is looking at the global scale of the olympics short sighted??? two classes would not change indiana wrestling in any way except it would cost more money because you would be giving out twice the awards at state finals Likely paid for by more family and friends attending from more wrestlers making it that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Great for what? Great for the big schools, why yes. Great for stunting the growth of the sport, why yes. Great for making it near impossible for a small school to have success, why yes. It's not currently hurting Mater Dei, Yorktown, Bellmont, South Adams. It is definitely not near impossible for these guys. Is it great for the big schools? Do you think the Bigs just have success automatically because of numbers? heck NO Look at their coaches; Franklin- Hasseman Perry- Tonte and Schoettle Penn- Harper Mishawaka- Smith/Snyder/Hasseman Cathedral-Rhodes/McGinley These guys are completely dedicated and have built staffs and communities that buy into their system. You would be hard pressed to go to an off season meet and not see these guys there. I have NO doubt these guys would be successful at 1A schools as well. It would take a few years, but it would happen. There is NO substitute for HARD WORK. But there is a shortcut...which it sounds like you would like to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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