Coach McCormick Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 UPDATE ON TEAMS FOR 2012-13 IHSWCA CLASSED TEAM STATE DUALS Updated --- Thursday, April 26, 2012 8 Large Division teams (3A) have accepted their invitation at this time. 8 Middle Division teams (2A) have accepted their bids at this point. 8 Small Division teams (1A) have accepted at this point in time. Coach McCormick IHSWCA President % = denotes teams that have accepted their spot and have committed to participate in this event. Class 3A (Large Division) % - Bloomington South % - Perry Meridian % - Evansville Mater Dei % - Cathedral % - Penn % - Elkhart Memorial % - Franklin % - Center Grove Class 2A (Medium Division) % - Jimtown % - Evansville Memorial % - Yorktown % - Culver Academy % - Southmont % - Danville % - Heritage Hills % - Muncie Southside Class 1A (Small Division) % - Adams Central % - Milan % - Lewis Cass % - Churubusco % - South Putnam % - South Adams % - Bremen % - Prairie Heights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What tournaments do these schools that have committed plan to get out of next year? If they are going to participate they will have to drop a tournament for next year because of the weigh-in issue. How is this going to affect the tournaments they are already commited to by contract for next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What tournaments do these schools that have committed plan to get out of next year? If they are going to participate they will have to drop a tournament for next year because of the weigh-in issue. How is this going to affect the tournaments they are already commited to by contract for next year? My guess is that they will not drop anything and just manage the individuals weigh-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 We dropped Rochester, mainly because it was on the same date, which stinks for us because it is a good tournament. What us leaving Rochester does is open up a spot in a really good tournament for another team. A lot of us are looking at the negatives that come from teams having to change their scheduele to accomadate the team state, but there are really alot of positives that could come from it. Think of all of the new oppurtunities that could arise for other teams if the teams at the team state have to drop events to add the team state. The next season new teams will be in the same situation, and new openings will become available for teams all around the state. I could even see some new events being created by teams who make team state one year and don't the next. Ill admit that the situation may cause a pain, and I would rather have the weigh-in exemption, but it also will cause oppurtunity. It sucks that we can't do Rochester next year, maybe we will get back in it the year after, maybe we will get into something new. In a lot of ways the schedule changes really cause more excitment around wrestling if you ask me. I dont see why changing your schedule around a little bit is so bad anyhow. We all have events that we like, but there are always new ones that you can add. The scheduling changes wont be that bad if they start happening in the spring anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mr. Faulkens called me yesterday, and we had a good conversation about weigh-ins and wrestling schedules. He was emphatic that he wanted our IHSWCA Team State Duals Championships to be a success. He said he had received some calls from coaches and AD's who were concerned about violating their 18 scheduling points or "over booking" their schedule. He made it clear that the most important thing is that each wrestler on a team stay at or under their 18 "in-season" competition points. He also clarified with me that the rule book should be interpreted such that a school may only enter 1 team into the post season. He said he (IHSAA) understands there are situations that arise where wrestling teams must be creative in scheduling to meet the needs of their program during "in season." For example, people have posted about the situation where a school with 90 wrestlers on their team sends 2 varsity teams out to 2 separate tournaments on the same day. Mr. Faulkens said he has no problem with this scenario, because although they may have "overbooked" their schedule, the coach's intent is to get his kids matches. We discussed other unique situations, including our Team State Duals event, and he again assured me that he was supportive of coaches/AD's being creative with their scheduling in order to meet the needs of their wrestling team during the "in season." The primary guideline to follow is that each wrestler on your team must not exceed their 18 competition points prior to sectionals. For new coaches, or anyone else that is interested, a wrestler may not exceed 18 competition points during the season (prior to sectionals). Any multi-team event that a wrestler competes in counts as 2 competition points and a dual meet counts as 1 point. Example: A wrestler on a team wrestles in 1 JV tournament, 2 varsity tournaments, 1 JV dual and 1 varsity dual. His cometition points total for himself would be 8 points at that point in time. Mr. Faulkens also went as far as to say that he would draft up a document which would give further guidance on this topic and send it to me. Thank you, Coach McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Hull Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sounds to me like we should back Faulkens as the next Commissioner if he is interested. In the meantime, way to keep it moving IHSWCA! I agree that the positives outweigh the negatives in regards to such a prestigious event. AS a coach/A.D. wrestling/hosting a tournament in which we lose a quality team, I can see a few headaches - but I WOULD UNDERSTAND! It's TEAM STATE! Can't imagine where invited teams will find better competition anyway. Glad this issue is getting additional exposure and attention. Proud of the Indiana wrestling community and IHSWCA. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I would imagine that to get the maximum of 18points a wrestler would still have to participate in four dual meets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 We dropped Rochester, mainly because it was on the same date, which stinks for us because it is a good tournament. What us leaving Rochester does is open up a spot in a really good tournament for another team. A lot of us are looking at the negatives that come from teams having to change their scheduele to accomadate the team state, but there are really alot of positives that could come from it. Think of all of the new oppurtunities that could arise for other teams if the teams at the team state have to drop events to add the team state. The next season new teams will be in the same situation, and new openings will become available for teams all around the state. I could even see some new events being created by teams who make team state one year and don't the next. Ill admit that the situation may cause a pain, and I would rather have the weigh-in exemption, but it also will cause oppurtunity. It sucks that we can't do Rochester next year, maybe we will get back in it the year after, maybe we will get into something new. In a lot of ways the schedule changes really cause more excitment around wrestling if you ask me. I dont see why changing your schedule around a little bit is so bad anyhow. We all have events that we like, but there are always new ones that you can add. The scheduling changes wont be that bad if they start happening in the spring anyhow. So by weakening the Rochester tournament and any other event that day we are helping wrestling how? It will be very difficult for Rochester to attract a top team for their tournament for fear that they could be invited to the team duals on that date. There are now going to be 24 openings around the state for events that could affect as many as 100 teams in the state, if not more. There is a very big ripple affect occurring that will not make athletic directors happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So by weakening the Rochester tournament and any other event that day we are helping wrestling how? It will be very difficult for Rochester to attract a top team for their tournament for fear that they could be invited to the team duals on that date. There are now going to be 24 openings around the state for events that could affect as many as 100 teams in the state, if not more. There is a very big ripple affect occurring that will not make athletic directors happy. 24 openings around the state means 24 more opportunities for wrestlers and schools looking to add or change events. Just look at the Open Dates section of this board. Coaches and AD's change schedules every year. These 24 openings could help other schools and be a positive for the school entering. It does not have to be negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mr. Faulkens called me yesterday, and we had a good conversation about weigh-ins and wrestling schedules. He was emphatic that he wanted our IHSWCA Team State Duals Championships to be a success. He said he had received some calls from coaches and AD's who were concerned about violating their 18 scheduling points or "over booking" their schedule. He made it clear that the most important thing is that each wrestler on a team stay at or under their 18 "in-season" competition points. He also clarified with me that the rule book should be interpreted such that a school may only enter 1 team into the post season. He said he (IHSAA) understands there are situations that arise where wrestling teams must be creative in scheduling to meet the needs of their program during "in season." For example, people have posted about the situation where a school with 90 wrestlers on their team sends 2 varsity teams out to 2 separate tournaments on the same day. Mr. Faulkens said he has no problem with this scenario, because although they may have "overbooked" their schedule, the coach's intent is to get his kids matches. We discussed other unique situations, including our Team State Duals event, and he again assured me that he was supportive of coaches/AD's being creative with their scheduling in order to meet the needs of their wrestling team during the "in season." The primary guideline to follow is that each wrestler on your team must not exceed their 18 competition points prior to sectionals. For new coaches, or anyone else that is interested, a wrestler may not exceed 18 competition points during the season (prior to sectionals). Any multi-team event that a wrestler competes in counts as 2 competition points and a dual meet counts as 1 point. Example: A wrestler on a team wrestles in 1 JV tournament, 2 varsity tournaments, 1 JV dual and 1 varsity dual. His cometition points total for himself would be 8 points at that point in time. Mr. Faulkens also went as far as to say that he would draft up a document which would give further guidance on this topic and send it to me. Thank you, Coach McCormick This would seem to open the door for Mishawaka to invite individuals again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 24 openings around the state means 24 more opportunities for wrestlers and schools looking to add or change events. Just look at the Open Dates section of this board. Coaches and AD's change schedules every year. These 24 openings could help other schools and be a positive for the school entering. It does not have to be negative. There are only a certain amount of events that can be held each year in the state. I would estimate that about 99% of the teams in the state have a full schedule right now and therefore in order to join a new event they must drop one. That means that the event they drop must look for another team and that creates a ripple effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyt Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I could think of 5 or 6 drop/changes/additions to schedules just off the top of my head from last year and I am one guy and it took me about 5 seconds to think of some local schools around my area who made changes. I am certain this happens every year in many schools since we have over 300 that wrestle. Yes, this may not be the easiest thing to do but who said making things better, getting better...was ever easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There are only a certain amount of events that can be held each year in the state. I would estimate that about 99% of the teams in the state have a full schedule right now and therefore in order to join a new event they must drop one. That means that the event they drop must look for another team and that creates a ripple effect. Very true... but schools start new tournaments or duals every year. The schools that enter those tournaments most likely had to leave other events they had wrestled in the past. Which means the tournamenst or duals that they left had to find a replacement for them. Changing your schedule at the last moment can be a problem, which is why I am worried that letting the other wildcard schools know in late April doesnt give them much time to change their schedule. Nor does it give the impacted event or team time to adjust theirs. BTW, I am very cautious of what Mr. Faulkens says. I am not sure how much he is backed or supported by Mr. Cox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Wadkins Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think the IHSWCA has done a "bang up" job getting this thing up and running. Our Chris Traicoff Memorial Invitational, held on the 2nd Saturday of December at Calumet, stands to potentially lose three (3) teams next year. If you are interested in being on the CTM waiting list, just in case we get some drops, please let me know via e-mail (jwadkins@lakeridge.k12.in.us) and I will let you know ASAP if we have any openings. Great Job to the IHSWCA for hitting the ground running with this. To all of you naysayers out there, you remind me of an old cartoon character from my childhood of the late 1960's called "Glum". He was the most negative cartoon character of all time. Check him out in the link below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanMountie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I agee with Coach Wadkins, I commend the IHSWCA for putting in time and effort to continue the team aspect of our sport. Personally, I did not want to lose the team tourney and this tournament salvages that (somewhat). As for the people who want to point out every flaw, go for it. The world needs CAVE people too. (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I like what Mr. Faulkens said, but he also said he didn't have a problem giving the IHSWCA an exemption form the weigh ins count. Then, Bobby Cox overturned his decision/opinion. Better get Mr. Cox's signature on any document that Mr. Faulkens sends so we don't get another curve ball thrown at us after the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think Bobby Cox will make the final decision on weigh ins. He said it wouldn't happen because other sports would want the same. Typical response from the IHSAA. If the IHSWCA goes ahead and teams participate, I don't think they will get another weigh in. They will have to pull out of a tournament they already are in. This will hurt some tournaments and teams will be expecting to compete against competition that will now not be there. I think the IHSAA knew this when they told us last year they were going to end team state, but we could still hold it as a association. I don' t think this is good for Indiana wrestling. It's going to hurt some already existing tournaments. When the team tournament was under the IHSAA the weigh in issue didn't exist because it was after the individual tournament had started. They gave us a carrot, and we took it rather than putting up a fight - win or lose. Now this is what we have to deal with. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it's going to work out like we expected. Just my read on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Crown Point declines IHSWCA bid for Classed Team State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Coach McCormick I plan on being at the spring clinic, but for those not able to attend - what is the IHSAA's stand on the weigh in issue? Will the teams planning on attending get a waiver on weigh ins or will they have to give up a tournament to participate? Is the IHSAA ok with this being considered a team state tournament? They made it clear they didn't like our association keeping score at the individual tournament and recognizing a team state champion for the individual tournament last year(so we didn't - hoping it would help the team dual tournament status). If we (the IHSWCA) go ahead and have this tournament (under the idea it is a team dual state tournament) will the IHSAA be unhappy with the IHSWCA? I think a lot of people think this tournament is to replace the team state tournament that was lost. If we say he champions of each class are IHSWCA team state champions, how will the IHSAA look at this? Is this going to be a IHSWCA team state championship tournament or just another high profile dual meet tournament? Will the IHSWCA give out a Class Team State Championship trophy or just IHSWCA Class Super Dual Team Championship trophy? If we (IHSWCA) give out a Class State Team trophy, will this upset the IHSAA? I don't see this as any different than what we were doing when we gave out team trophies after the individual state - and the IHSAA used that against us in the end to end team state. The IHSWCA didn't give out trophies the last two years of the individual tournament because the IHSAA said they were against it. I think most people see this tournament as a replacement for the lost team state. They want to leave this tournament as a class team state champion - how will the IHSAA feel about this? How will this help our fight for dual team state, class team state with the IHSAA? I hate to play the devils advocate, but how is this going to help our standing with the IHSAA. What are our associations plans for team state, wrestle backs and even class? What is our direction as an association in these areas - team state, class wrestling team or individual and wrestle backs? I know its not easy(I've been there), but what is our plan of attack? What is our plan for future proposals? Give me something to fight for. Bob Harmon Castle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Coach Harmon, This earlier post from Coach McCormick should answer your IHSAA weigh-in question. http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,21945.msg152157.html#msg152157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 what is the IHSAA's stand on the weigh in issue? Will the teams planning on attending get a waiver on weigh ins or will they have to give up a tournament to participate? Coach Harmon, Coach McCormick has brought attention to this already, but there will be no weigh-in exemption for teams participating in this event. It will be up to each individual school to use whatever creative measures they need to stay within the 18 scheduling points allotted (which doesn't necessarily mean having to give up a tournament). I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So is Penn the new representative from the Merrillville Semi State in 3A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 1. With regard to calling our event a "championship event", I have an e-mail from Mr. Faulkens saying that it is okay for the IHSWCA to call this the "IHSWCA Classed Team State Duals Championships." 2. Awards for IHSWCA Classed Team State Duals Event - Team Trophy awarded to top 3 teams in each class. - Championship banner to the 1st place team. - Individual Awards to each wrestler on top 2 teams (30 issued) - Certificate of participation (or similar award) for all participants in this event. - 1 Outstanding Wrestler Award presented in EACH class (voted on by coaches and IHSWCA committee) 3. "How will this help our fight for dual team state, class team state with the IHSAA?" -- bharmon01 I guess my thought on this is that we already lost the fight for an IHSAA sponsored dual team state. The IHSAA has made it clear that they view wrestling as an individual sport, so we will not be considered for an IHSAA class "team" state event. The IHSWCA is trying to fill the "dual team atmosphere" void left in our wrestling community by sponsoring a team state duals event that the IHSAA has also cleared to be held as a classed event. I realize, as posted on the messageboard, that some people may, or may not, recognize the IHSWCA's event as an Indiana team championship event. I guess I would say that the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. No one is being forced to come to the event. We think there will be some great competition with different size schools being represented from across the state. This will be a celebration of wrestling at all levels. If people want to be a part of it as a participant, or as a fan, then come to the event and enjoy... if someone doesn't think it is a worthwhile event, then simply don't come to the event. The IHSWCA feels that having something in place is better than having nothing in place with regard to a Team State Duals event. 4. Future plans of attack. Individual sports' (including wrestling) proposals fall on the odd years. Next year is 2013, so wrestling, and all of the other individually labeled sports, will make proposals to the IHSAA. a. Team State topic --- this has already been decided with the IHSAA dropping the Team State Duals. The IHSWCA is hosting a team duals classed event to, in essence, replace the dropped IHSAA team state event. b. Wrestle backs --- the IHSAA has made it clear that for reasons such as time constraints, they are not in favor of wrestle- backs. I doubt wrestlebacks will be proposed in 2013. c. Class wrestling -- again, the IHSAA has made it clear that wrestling is categorized as an individual sport in Indiana. They are not going to "class" an individual sport. We carried out a survey at the sectionals this year that asked for coaches' feedback on several rule changes and their feelings on the new weight classes. I would say further discussion will take place in these areas as we look to make proposals next year. Coach McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 b. Wrestle backs --- the IHSAA has made it clear that for reasons such as time constraints, they are not in favor of wrestle-backs. I doubt wrestlebacks will be proposed in 2013. Though it would seems clear a better argument for wrestle-backs now exist now that the IHSAA has eliminated the Team Tournament. Individual scores at each level of the tournament will now decide the over all team champion. Wrestle-backs more clearly help show the teams results based on individual preformance, thus seem like something that is worth persuing in the future. I'm at least hopeful the IHSWCA will have something to talk to the IHSAA about at this meeting. While these main issues may not be heard I'm sure talking to them about somthing is better than having nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanMountie Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I guess my thought on this is that we already lost the fight for an IHSAA sponsored dual team state. The IHSAA has made it clear that they view wrestling as an individual sport, so we will not be considered for an IHSAA class "team" state event I guess it really doesn't matter what mentality the association takes, the IHSAA views our sport as an "individual" one. So much for Y2's argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts