samaj Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 one other thing to consider...as an INDIVIDUAL sport (as specified in IHSAA Bylaws) wrestling is able to do things that TEAM sports cannot do in the offseason etc etc. Careful what we wish for. I am pretty sure that per IHSAA bylaws that only Team sports can be classed and if we are classed, we are a team sport, and there are HUGE changes that come with that. No more summer duals etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Trent - Mr. Faulkins said it was ok to call it a classed team state, but did the IHSAA say it was ok? He is not the commissioner. Did he get the commissioners approval on this? They told us 17 years ago it was ok to give out a IHSWCA Individual team champion, second and third place and then said the IHSWCA was doing something that the IHSAA didn't agree with when they used it against us to end team state. What makes this any different? I feel they are setting us up if we ever try to get a IHSAA sanctioned team state again. Get an e-mail from bobby cox that says the ihsaa says its ok and i will feel more comfortable about this. But only a little more comfortable because i know how the ihsaa works. If we every do come back and propose a team tournament single or classed they now have a argument that the IHSWCA went ahead and did something the eliminated in 2012. They can come back later and say we went ahead and did something they told us not to do making the IHSWCA looking like the bad guy. 2013 is our proposal year - from your response it sounds like we will not be making a proposal for wrestle backs or some type of team state - so what do we plan on proposing? Theses seem to be our most passionate issues, so what are we bringing to the table? Just talking to them? About what? What else do we want for our sport? Thats my question Another reply said that we will not get a waiver for weigh ins, but thats ok because teams will just have be creative with weigh ins. I don't think that many teams have enough reserve wrestlers to sit their varsity out of a tournament or two dual meets to be able to do this. This means that they will have to pull out of a tournament or dual meets they are already committed to. Now some teams will be expecting competition at a tournament or dual meet that will not be there. To me thats not much different than the argument of teams holding kids out of the old team state. I don't see any way this will not hurt already existing tournaments. If teams follow the rules for weigh ins, most will have to pull out of something or send their back-ups as replacements to these tournaments or dual meets. Like the argument about the old team tournament - how does this not hurt the integrity of the already existing tournaments or dual meets? Thats the positive of being a ihsaa sanctioned event - the weigh in issue is over after the state tournament begins. The ihsaa knew this when they said "we are ending the current team tournament, but you guys can hold one if you want." I find it ironic that this still favors the strongest teams with the most depth and all the small schools and even a lot of big schools have bought into it. Just for a chance to say you were a ihswca team state champion, which to be honest doesn't mean a whole lot. It just feeds the egos of the coaches, which was a lot of the argument against the old team state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Another reply said that we will not get a waiver for weigh ins, but thats ok because teams will just have be creative with weigh ins. I don't think that many teams have enough reserve wrestlers to sit their varsity out of a tournament or two dual meets to be able to do this. This means that they will have to pull out of a tournament or dual meets they are already committed to. Now some teams will be expecting competition at a tournament or dual meet that will not be there. To me thats not much different than the argument of teams holding kids out of the old team state. I don't see any way this will not hurt already existing tournaments. If teams follow the rules for weigh ins, most will have to pull out of something or send their back-ups as replacements to these tournaments or dual meets. Like the argument about the old team tournament - how does this not hurt the integrity of the already existing tournaments or dual meets? Thats the positive of being a ihsaa sanctioned event - the weigh in issue is over after the state tournament begins. The ihsaa knew this when they said "we are ending the current team tournament, but you guys can hold one if you want." I find it ironic that this still favors the strongest teams with the most depth and all the small schools and even a lot of big schools have bought into it. Just for a chance to say you were a ihswca team state champion, which to be honest doesn't mean a whole lot. It just feeds the egos of the coaches, which was a lot of the argument against the old team state. Coach Harmon, I know you're comments are primarily directed towards Coach McCormick, but since they are being made on a public forum, I do feel compelled to reply to the comments in the above quotation. I don't understand how you can say the IHSWCA team champion "doesn't mean a whole lot," but in the same breath say "most teams have bought into it." These are two totally conflicting viewpoints. Maybe it's your own personal opinion that the upcoming IHSWCA event won't mean alot. However, whatever apathy you may feel for it, there will be schools that'll feel honored and will put alot of emphasis on it. The field isn't set yet, but check out the caliber of the teams involved already (which is at the start of this thread) and that should give you an indication of the talent pool of the event. In regards to teams having to drop tournaments and the impact on other events. I'm not going to pretend to know each individual schools particular situation. Maybe some will have to drop tournaments, maybe none of them will. I like to keep my hands in my own cookie jar on that front. But at one point, 2 of our toughest regular season tournaments, the Al Smith and Spartan Classsics were in their infancy. Obviously the only way that these tournaments became so prestigous was by inviting teams away from other events that were going on at the time as well. Which, in essence, must of hurt the integrity of those other events. So let me ask you a question Coach Harmon. Do you feel that the Al Smith and Spartan Classics have helped or have hurt Indiana wrestling since their inception? Your answer to that question should determine what your feelings should be towards the IHSWCA team state. Nick Strub East Central Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Nick - you miss my point - I don't care if the IHSWCA sponsors a tournament. I just think calling a Team State tournament gives the IHSAA something to come back on the IHSWCA later and say "the ihswca went ahead and did their own thing again without our approval." Like the did with the IHSWCA Individual Team State Champion. They told us in 1996 after the individual tournament team champion was ended by the IHSAA. They then came back later and used it as an argument to end team state. That is why we didn't give out a team individual champion in 2011 and 2012. We thought not giving out a IHSWCA individual champion at the hall of fame banquet might help the chances of saving team state, but it didn't. Call it the IHSWCA Invitational Dual tournament, because that is what it is. Don' give them something to use later when we may try to propose a team dual state championship again in the future. They can come back and say we went ahead and did something they told us not to do again. It's not a State Tournament because all teams are not included like all other IHSAA State Tournaments. If we want a class team state - show them how it can be done with all teams included. I just don't want all the IHSWCA efforts put into this tournament and give up other issues like wrestle backs, which looks like the direction we are going in. There will never be a Team Dual State again until the IHSAA wants there to be one. There will never be class wrestling team or individual until the IHSAA wants it and can make it work for all individual sports. As stated in earlier post the IHSAA has made it clear there are no plans for class in individual sports, so going ahead and running a class team tournament and calling it a state tournament is putting back in their face. Giving them ammunition to use against the IHSWCA again. A lot of teams bought into the idea that the IHSWCA Team State Tournament would give them a chance to participate. The problem is not every team has a chance. Its still based on individual tournament success to be considered for invitation. The consideration for participation came down for some teams for finishes at individual state - at least that was what I read on a thread heading into individual state. All teams are not included so don't call it a State Tournament. Go ahead and do it, but don't call it a team state tournament and declare team state champions - because it is not a state championship - call it a IHSWCA Invitational Class Championship. I would rather the IHSWCA put its efforts into wrestle backs in the IHSAA Individual State Tournament than a IHSWCA Invitational team tournament - thats just my opinion. You don't have to agree. This is where we are now - a Individual tournament that decides a state champion - I think we need to focus on making it better now. Like our president said "team state is over in the IHSAA's eyes." So put our energy there now. When they recognize wrestling as a team sport - go back after team state. When the iHSAA recognizes wrestling as a class sport - go after class team state. Until then I would like to focus our energy on individual state, thats all we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Why do you say, "not all teams are included"? The IHSAA used one individual weekend to pick 32 participants for its duals tournament. The IHSWCA used 4 full weeks of comprehensive individuals' results to pick 24 teams. I've asked this before. Is that really so different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brown Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Coaches and invited teams that are participating in the IHSWCA Team State Duals has a venue be chosen to hos the event or is this going to be discussed at the spring clinic??? If it has already been discussed I do apologize....If not I can check the availability on Tech's campus on hosting. We have two gyms the main gym can fit around 8 mats and the east gym can fit 3-4 full size mats......Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Have the other wildcard teams been announced yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 UPDATE ON TEAMS FOR 2012-13 IHSWCA CLASSED TEAM STATE DUALS Updated --- Thursday, April 26, 2012 8 Large Division teams (3A) have accepted their invitation at this time. 8 Middle Division teams (2A) have accepted their bids at this point. 8 Small Division teams (1A) have accepted at this point in time. Coach McCormick IHSWCA President % = denotes teams that have accepted their spot and have committed to participate in this event. Class 3A (Large Division) % - Bloomington South % - Perry Meridian % - Evansville Mater Dei % - Cathedral % - Penn % - Elkhart Memorial % - Franklin % - Center Grove Class 2A (Medium Division) % - Jimtown % - Evansville Memorial % - Yorktown % - Culver Academy % - Southmont % - Danville % - Heritage Hills % - Muncie Southside Class 1A (Small Division) % - Adams Central % - Milan % - Lewis Cass % - Churubusco % - South Putnam % - South Adams % - Bremen % - Prairie Heights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I thought there would be one team in each division determined at the beginning of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Plans were changed when the weigh-in exemption was taken off the table. Without that exemption, teams would be making scheduling modification in-season. That's a position that'd have been unfair for the teams that would've been potentially selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Center Grove locks in a 3A position! See updated list of teams a few threads above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjayroza Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 No Region Teams? Why did they decline? Was it because of the Traicoff or other scheduling conflicts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brown Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Coach McCornmick, Has a venue been chosen for the classed IHSWCA State Finals yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockdad79 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 How is it that the 4th team in 1a (North Miami) isn't invited? Or did they decline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 No Region Teams? Why did they decline? Was it because of the Traicoff or other scheduling conflicts? Merrillville and CP both earned automatic advancement into the event, but were the only 2 schools from any class to decline the invitation. I'm not sure of the reasons. The final wildcard would have been between Penn, Franklin, Lake Central, and Center Grove. Instead, Penn received the auto bid for Merrillville semi-state; and the final 2 WC's were between Franklin/LC/CG, with the coaches selecting Franklin and CG because of their resumes from this past season and expected lineups for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 How is it that the 4th team in 1a (North Miami) isn't invited? Or did they decline? 1. Four auto bids were handed out to the top team from each semi-state. 2. Then, 2 wildcard auto bids were handed out for the next two highest scoring teams (South Adams and Churubusco, who were 2nd and 3rd in the points). 3. Then, the final 2 wildcards were voted on from among the teams within 35 points of the first available team. This meant a vote from among North Miami, Bremen, Fremont, Prairie Heights, Union County, and Shenandoah. Because the point values project those final six teams all to be within 5 points or less of each other in Duals strength next year, their earned points in the individual tournament were largely ignored and season results, strength of schedule, and expected lineups for next year were heavily scrutinized by the coaches' selection committee. Finally, there was a very hotly contested vote and Bremen and Prairie Heights were selected. PH has not made a final decision yet on its participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Prairie Heights accepts final 1A bid! The field is complete in all 3 divisions for the 2012-13 IHSWCA Classed Team State Duals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Prairie Heights accepts final 1A bid! The field is complete in all 3 divisions for the 2012-13 IHSWCA Classed Team State Duals! any word on a venue yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 We have received 2 bids at this point in time from 2 high schools in the greater Indianapolis area who would like to host this event. A third bid packet went out in the mail yesterday to another high school in the Indy area. We expect to select the host school site in the next couple of weeks. Coach McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 It was a honor to be a part of the selection committee for this event. Their were many deserving teams and the data we had in front of us was amazing. Hats off to everyone that was involved in this process. I can't wait to see this event a help even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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