weight class changes?

[TPL1992]

I understand completely, the changes are ever so slight at the lower end.  The differences become much more noticeable as 145 becomes 152 and 152 becomes 160.  Somewhere along the way one weight disappeared down the rabbit hole.  Taking this year's Castle team as an example, with the state champ Welch brothers at 152 and 160.  Assuming they aren't happy to bump up to 160 and 170(!) and stay put, that means that somewhere in between 135, 140 and 145 there are going to be some vicious challenge matches to hold on to a varsity spot.  #*@&!!  Then, if Castle's 189 bumped up to 195 they'd have to find another decent kid to fill the brand new spot at 182, or if their 189 dropped to 182, they'd have to find somebody for the new 195. 

 

I'm not sure the bell curve concept works out so great for smaller schools - they would have problems at the top end of this curve.

I agree.  Smaller schools would struggle to fill all the upper weights.  Now some schools struggle to find kids in their hallways to fill 215 and 285 who have previous wrestling experience.  Adding the extra higher weight is going to make it that much harder for small school to fill that spot just so they arent giving up a forfiet.

[Y2CJ41]

Here is the forfeit data from 2011, it shows that it is a lot easier for schools to fill the upper weights than the lower weights.

 

http://www.indianamat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/forfeits.htm

 

Here is the data for the past three years.  This is the weight class with the percentage of forfeits at sectional.

 

  2011  2010  2009

103  27.24%  27.40%  27.65%

112  21.79%  22.30%  23.15%

119  18.27%  15.80%  18.33%

125  13.78%  17.70%  12.54%

130  14.74%  13.20%  13.83%

135  11.22%  9.70%  8.36%

140  11.22%  8.70%  10.93%

145  10.26%  7.70%  10.29%

152  10.58%  11.30%  11.25%

160  10.26%  10.60%  12.86%

171  9.94%  8.70%  12.22%

189  10.58%  11.00%  10.93%

215  15.06%  13.20%  14.15%

285  12.50%  12.60%  16.08%

 

Here is a link to the 2009 data

http://indianamat.com/brackets/ffdistrubution2009.html

 

Here is a link to the 2010 data

*Note this was not done by me

http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,10515.0.html

 

[hammer]

My point is why add more weight classes up top when 189 pounders do quite well at 215(probably do better than they would have at 189).   Your argument isn't a very good one.

 

I am not sure why you have such issue with my argument.  We need to get away from pushing weight cutting in our sport.  It hurts wrestling as much as anything does.  You will find a lot of the best athlete's in most schools being kids who would fit in from 185 to 215.  Those are, typically, easy weight classes to fill, but would be just as easy, in a lot of cases, if you added a third weight class in there. 

[1oldwrestler]

I am not sure why you have such issue with my argument.  We need to get away from pushing weight cutting in our sport.  It hurts wrestling as much as anything does.   You will find a lot of the best athlete's in most schools being kids who would fit in from 185 to 215.  Those are, typically, easy weight classes to fill, but would be just as easy, in a lot of cases, if you added a third weight class in there. 

 

Uggh!  Another match to watch in the upper weights.  God help us.

[Jacob]

I think moving the 103 up is a mistake. Granted there are a lot of forfeits but moving this weight class up will take an opportunity of a smaller kid to be competitive. Some kids are just small and will never be able to move up. If this class goes to 107 you are going to have many 112 pound kids cutting down. Now the smaller kids are going to be at an even more disadvantage.

My kid was a 3 pounder this past year. He did well. I am not possting this to lessen his potential competition. Cutting to 3 or 12 for him next year is not even an option at this point.

It is about time he is starting to fill out...lol

[1oldwrestler]

Jacob & Nickstero: Your posts deal with too many feelings and emotions.  Don't you realize that it's all  very scientific as to the reasons why 103 needs to be raised to 106 or 107.  The stats dictate that all of wrestlings ills will be cured for the following reasons:

1) A miniscule deacrease in the number of forfeits received at 106/107.  This will make viewing wrestling just so much more exciting that all dual meets will be sold out and you'll have to order your tix to Conseco in October.

2) 98 was around for 20 years and now 103 has been around for 20 years.  The average weight of a kid entering h.s. has been increasing.  Tell that to the 21 kids that wrestled School Boy (most kids are 6th/7th graders at this division) at 77 pounds at ISWA Folkstyle state last year.  Think many of these little fellas will be tipping the Toledos at anything north of 95 pounds when they enter h.s. in 1.5 to 2.5 yrs?

3) Finally, and this is the one that makes the most sense to me, the 140 pound freshman won't get depressed anymore watching a 100 pound freshman get a varsity letter just becasue he was small while the 140 pounder toiled for a year on the j.v. squad.  Actually, he'll feel better about the behemoth that was a junior that never wrestled a day in his life but wrestled 285 and made it to Conseco after being on the team for all of two months.  It will be better because the behemoth was a junior and not an underclassman freshman.

[maligned]

Jacob & Nickstero: Your posts deal with too many feelings and emotions.  Don't you realize that it's all  very scientific as to the reasons why 103 needs to be raised to 106 or 107.  The stats dictate that all of wrestlings ills will be cured for the following reasons:

1) A miniscule deacrease in the number of forfeits received at 106/107.  This will make viewing wrestling just so much more exciting that all dual meets will be sold out and you'll have to order your tix to Conseco in October.

2) 98 was around for 20 years and now 103 has been around for 20 years.  The average weight of a kid entering h.s. has been increasing.  Tell that to the 21 kids that wrestled School Boy (most kids are 6th/7th graders at this division) at 77 pounds at ISWA Folkstyle state last year.  Think many of these little fellas will be tipping the Toledos at anything north of 95 pounds when they enter h.s. in 1.5 to 2.5 yrs?

3) Finally, and this is the one that makes the most sense to me, the 140 pound freshman won't get depressed anymore watching a 100 pound freshman get a varsity letter just becasue he was small while the 140 pounder toiled for a year on the j.v. squad.  Actually, he'll feel better about the behemoth that was a junior that never wrestled a day in his life but wrestled 285 and made it to Conseco after being on the team for all of two months.  It will be better because the behemoth was a junior and not an underclassman freshman.

 

Speaking of emotions...

[mtv2112]

Jacob & Nickstero: Your posts deal with too many feelings and emotions.  Don't you realize that it's all  very scientific as to the reasons why 103 needs to be raised to 106 or 107.  The stats dictate that all of wrestlings ills will be cured for the following reasons:

1) A miniscule deacrease in the number of forfeits received at 106/107.  This will make viewing wrestling just so much more exciting that all dual meets will be sold out and you'll have to order your tix to Conseco in October.

2) 98 was around for 20 years and now 103 has been around for 20 years.  The average weight of a kid entering h.s. has been increasing.  Tell that to the 21 kids that wrestled School Boy (most kids are 6th/7th graders at this division) at 77 pounds at ISWA Folkstyle state last year.  Think many of these little fellas will be tipping the Toledos at anything north of 95 pounds when they enter h.s. in 1.5 to 2.5 yrs?

3) Finally, and this is the one that makes the most sense to me, the 140 pound freshman won't get depressed anymore watching a 100 pound freshman get a varsity letter just becasue he was small while the 140 pounder toiled for a year on the j.v. squad.  Actually, he'll feel better about the behemoth that was a junior that never wrestled a day in his life but wrestled 285 and made it to Conseco after being on the team for all of two months.  It will be better because the behemoth was a junior and not an underclassman freshman.

 

You have taken your screen name to heart.  I bet you walked up hill to school both ways in the snow.

 

 

[1oldwrestler]

You have taken your screen name to heart.  I bet you walked up hill to school both ways in the snow.

 

 

[/quote

 

Lol. Dont forget about the dinosaur I rode as well.

[awood1]

For me it not about going from 103-106.  Its about pushing out the smaller wrestlers.

We already went from 98-103.  Now we are going up again.  At some point that has to stop.

You of all people should understand that being small does not make you insignificant.

I suppose if you want you can have a JV only weight around 100.  That way these guys are not

wresting much bigger guys.  By the way.  Many of your top Senior 125-135 pounders were

around 100 as freshman.

 

Get over it.  Your 98 lb baby may have to wrestle a guy "GASP" 8 lbs bigger than him!!  Consider the 190lb kid giving up 3x's that or the 230lb HVY giving up...uhhhh about the weight of a little freshman!!  ;D ;D

[awood1]

My point is why add more weight classes up top when 189 pounders do quite well at 215(probably do better than they would have at 189).   Your argument isn't a very good one.

 

And an argument based on a question, "quite well" and "probably" really seals the deal.....NOT!  :

[1oldwrestler]

Get over it.  Your 98 lb baby may have to wrestle a guy "GASP" 8 lbs bigger than him!!  Consider the 190lb kid giving up 3x's that or the 230lb HVY giving up...uhhhh about the weight of a little freshman!!   ;D ;D

 

I love the smiley face. It allows the poster to personally attack someone and then pretend like hes just kidding when the little emoticons are applied. ;D > :(

[1oldwrestler]

Get over it.  Your 98 lb baby may have to wrestle a guy "GASP" 8 lbs bigger than him!!  Consider the 190lb kid giving up 3x's that or the 230lb HVY giving up...uhhhh about the weight of a little freshman!!   ;D ;D

 

The big difference here is that the 98 pounder is actually wrestling an opponent that knows something about wrestling whereas the 190 pounder is only getting a lesson in how to push and shove or dance.  ;D

[rox2010152]

I don't understand why we just can't be happy with the weight classes we have.  There will be problems and flaws with every system we can create.  For those concerned about the whole weight cuttin issue, it is a part of this sport, just as much as a classic double leg.  It will always exist, kids will always want to cut weight to be bigger and stronger than the competition.  A weight class change won't erase or even slightly diminish the weight cutting business.  I say leave the weight classes as they are and go on with it. 

[Barrq]

The other rule change I herd about was that 285lbers were going to go straight to ot and forget the first six min!!!

[awood1]

I love the smiley face. It allows the poster to personally attack someone and then pretend like hes just kidding when the little emoticons are applied. ;D > :(

 

Hard to believe, but I have been posting on this board (and the old..and older one) for 15+ years now and EVERY time a change in weights comes up the loudest voice in the crowd is ALWAYS the parent of some kid who hasn't hit 3 digits on the scale yet.  Consistently the same crap gets rehashed...

 

1.) It's not fair to the "little" guys

2.) Big guys can't wrestle

3.) Too many forfeits and freshmen at (insert smallest class here)

4.) Wrestling will perish if we lose sight of the principal that all sizes can participate

5.) Why change?

 

Did I miss anything?  If not, I will move on as this horse has been beat to death years ago when 98 became 103.   ;D ;D

 

Oops, sorry I am sure I insulted someone so I better put on my "mean" face.   > > >

[move]

P.S. GET OVER IT!!;D ;D ;D ;D [/move]

[1oldwrestler]

Hard to believe, but I have been posting on this board (and the old..and older one) for 15+ years now and EVERY time a change in weights comes up the loudest voice in the crowd is ALWAYS the parent of some kid who hasn't hit 3 digits on the scale yet.  Consistently the same crap gets rehashed...

 

1.) It's not fair to the "little" guys

2.) Big guys can't wrestle

3.) Too many forfeits and freshmen at (insert smallest class here)

4.) Wrestling will perish if we lose sight of the principal that all sizes can participate

5.) Why change?

 

Did I miss anything?  If not, I will move on as this horse has been beat to death years ago when 98 became 103.   ;D ;D

 

Oops, sorry I am sure I insulted someone so I better put on my "mean" face.   > > >

[move]

P.S. GET OVER IT!!;D ;D ;D ;D [/move]

 

At least you agree big guys can't wrestle!!!!  Talk about someone needing to get over it, that  would be you!  Sorry you were one of the "poor babies" that had the misfortune of being big when you you enetered h.s.  Must have been hard for you being sought after and fawned over because of your size in football.  Then, GASP, you went  to wrestling and the world wasn't handed to you b/c of your size.  Poor baby!  Did you face the horror of j.v. your freshman year?  Or, worse, did you get beat up on the varsity b/c you were wrestling, GASP, upperclassmen?  Golly, that sure wasn't fair to you, was it? I feel really terrible for you.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Timeinandout]

And an argument based on a question, "quite well" and "probably" really seals the deal.....NOT!   :

I will repost and clarify my ealier post.  Trey Reese and Logan Cooper, state champ and runner-up at 215, weigh 189 pounds.  I have heard from others that Trey can't handle Stevenson in the room.  Trey dominated 215 and weighs 25 pounds less than some.  I would venture to say that the two mentioned wrestlers placed higher than they would have at 189. 

 

Did you just try to bring "NOT" back from 1991?

[jchas]

Thought I would put on here a list of how many kids are competing at State this weekend and see what conclusions

you guys have on them.  Most second year Schoolboys will be in 8th or freshman if they have not taken a red shirt year.

Most Cadet will be Sophomores next year.  Some will freshman and I even know a few that will be Juniors.

Juniors are more than likely Juniors and Seniors.

 

 

Schoolboy/Girl

70: 16

77: 25

84: 31

91: 44

98: 44

105: 37

112: 33

120: 26

128: 23

136: 19

144: 22

152: 12

160: 8

175: 12

190: 7

210: 5

265: 0

Total: 364 Cadet

84: 7

91: 9

98: 27

105: 31

112: 32

119: 41

125: 37

130: 29

135: 35

140: 33

145: 23

152: 31

160: 29

171: 27

189: 18

215: 15

285: 10

Total: 434 Junior

98: 3

105: 3

112: 16

119: 24

125: 19

130: 28

135: 26

140: 22

145: 30

152: 41

160: 31

171: 34

189: 29

215: 19

285: 27

Tot

[hammer]

I will repost and clarify my ealier post.  Trey Reese and Logan Cooper, state champ and runner-up at 215, weigh 189 pounds.  I have heard from others that Trey can't handle Stevenson in the room.  Trey dominated 215 and weighs 25 pounds less than some.  I would venture to say that the two mentioned wrestlers placed higher than they would have at 189. 

 

Did you just try to bring "NOT" back from 1991?

 

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that Reece can't handle Stevenson in the room, considering that they are the same size, Stevenson is the one who wrestles their natural weight class.  That doesn't mean that Reece wouldn't be a top 5 guy at 189.

[Timeinandout]

Hammer,

I totally agree that Reece was top 5 at 189.  I am just saying that giving up the weight at the bigger weight classes doesn't restrict a 189 pounder from winning at 215.  The champ and runner-up at 215 would have had their hands full at 189.

[hammer]

Hammer,

I totally agree that Reece was top 5 at 189.  I am just saying that giving up the weight at the bigger weight classes doesn't restrict a 189 pounder from winning at 215.  The champ and runner-up at 215 would have had their hands full at 189.

 

I think we agree on that.  In the same token, shouldn't a 95 still be able to compete at 106/107?

[Timeinandout]

I think we agree on that.  In the same token, shouldn't a 95 still be able to compete at 106/107?

In my opinion, no way. 

[awood1]

At least you agree big guys can't wrestle!!!!  Talk about someone needing to get over it, that  would be you!  Sorry you were one of the "poor babies" that had the misfortune of being big when you you enetered h.s.  Must have been hard for you being sought after and fawned over because of your size in football.  Then, GASP, you went  to wrestling and the world wasn't handed to you b/c of your size.  Poor baby!  Did you face the horror of j.v. your freshman year?  Or, worse, did you get beat up on the varsity b/c you were wrestling, GASP, upperclassmen?   Golly, that sure wasn't fair to you, was it? I feel really terrible for you.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Your a funny guy, tottaly wrong and showing your ignorance along the way, but funny nonetheless.  As a freshman I was 5' 2" 112lbs, graduated HS at 5' 11" about 180lbs, summer after frosh. yr. of college I was 6' 4" 215lbs after a year out of sports altogether (remember, I was TOO SMALL to play football by most standards)  And no where along the way was I whining about what life handed me.

 

P.S. I listed the comment you agreed with under "crap" where it belongs.

[move]

           ;D                    :          ???          :-*    [/move]

[1oldwrestler]

Your a funny guy, tottaly wrong and showing your ignorance along the way, but funny nonetheless.  As a freshman I was 5' 2" 112lbs, graduated HS at 5' 11" about 180lbs, summer after frosh. yr. of college I was 6' 4" 215lbs after a year out of sports altogether (remember, I was TOO SMALL to play football by most standards)  And no where along the way was I whining about what life handed me.

 

P.S. I listed the comment you agreed with under "crap" where it belongs.

[move]

           ;D                    :          ???          :-*    [/move]

 

Ok internet troll.  Crawl back under the bridge from where you came.