Home school athletes bill

[munges]

Of course the GPA's were higher, a less biased indicator would be standardized test scores and eventual college graduation rates.

 

I didn't write what I wanted I meant GPA's in college is where they are doing far better on average that public schools.

[roxmom]

As with public school students, I am sure that there are varying grades for students in the homeschool environment.  Not all students will make straight A's, nor will all fail, but my point is that there level of standards may/ will be different than the public school for which they are trying to become an athlete.  I know that there are homeschool students who are excelling when they were placed in a public high school.  I also know some children who are behind because they were homeschooled.  Would they have been behind had they attended public school?  Who knows?  That is a possibility, but students who are on the same public school team should be judged/graded with the same scale.

 

JMO

[Boot]

I didn't write what I wanted I meant GPA's in college is where they are doing far better on average that public schools.

 

Interesting, where is that report, I would like to read that.

[MattM]

Gulp..........I agree Y2........Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!

 

By not commenting I neither confirm nor deny my agreement with his statment.  My soul just feels better that way.  ;D

 

 

By the way here is a related article about this issue

 

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110216/NEWS/302169996

[wrastler]

"Much of the existing research on academic performance centers on K-12, home school students and many of these studies show that home school children outperform their public school peers on several national standardized exams), including the Stanford Achievement Test and the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills, and at nearly all grade levels (Rakestraw 1987, Frost 1987, Wanes 1990, Ray 1990, Rudner 1999)."

 

Published by Journal of College Admission, Spring 2004 by Jones, Paul, Gloeckner, Gene

 

Now then, what does this have to do with HS wrestling.

 

[roxmom]

Awesome, well-written article.  I totally agree with the author of that article.

[munges]

Interesting, where is that report, I would like to read that.

 

There are several out there I can't find the ones my wife and I looked at when we lived in a subpar school district. Below is a link and some excerpts from a CBS report.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3955/is_200410/ai_n9443747/pg_4/?tag=content;col1

 

Many studies have been completed during the past 20 years that examine the academic achievement of the homeeducated (Ray, 2004b). Dozens of researchers have executed these studies. Examples of these studies ranged from a multiyear study in Washington state, three nationwide studies across the United States, and a nationwide study in Canada (Ray, 1994, 1997, 2001c; Rudner, 1999; Wartes, 1991). In study after study, the homeschooled scored, on average, at the 65th to 80th percentile on standardized academic achievement tests in the United States and Canada, compared to the public school average of the 50th percentile.

 

how home-schooled students at their institution compared to their general student population in terms of academic success. About nine percent said "far more academically successful," 22 percent reported "somewhat more academically successful," 38 percent said "academically about average," zero percent reported "somewhat less academically successful," zero percent said "far less academically successful," and 31 percent said "don't know."

[munges]

So what is the big deal as someone has stated we already have a homeschooled state champ. There has been a standard set let them wrestle, play in the band, or cheer.

[Y2CJ41]

He had to be enrolled in school to be allowed in the IHSAA tournament series.  He had to have been enrolled in a certain number of credit hours or  he would not have been eligible.

[Boot]

There are several out there I can't find the ones my wife and I looked at when we lived in a subpar school district. Below is a link and some excerpts from a CBS report.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3955/is_200410/ai_n9443747/pg_4/?tag=content;col1

 

Many studies have been completed during the past 20 years that examine the academic achievement of the homeeducated (Ray, 2004b). Dozens of researchers have executed these studies. Examples of these studies ranged from a multiyear study in Washington state, three nationwide studies across the United States, and a nationwide study in Canada (Ray, 1994, 1997, 2001c; Rudner, 1999; Wartes, 1991). In study after study, the homeschooled scored, on average, at the 65th to 80th percentile on standardized academic achievement tests in the United States and Canada, compared to the public school average of the 50th percentile.

 

how home-schooled students at their institution compared to their general student population in terms of academic success. About nine percent said "far more academically successful," 22 percent reported "somewhat more academically successful," 38 percent said "academically about average," zero percent reported "somewhat less academically successful," zero percent said "far less academically successful," and 31 percent said "don't know."

 

Thanks, I'll have to read those tonight, very interesting so far.

[jchas]

There are several out there I can't find the ones my wife and I looked at when we lived in a subpar school district. Below is a link and some excerpts from a CBS report.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3955/is_200410/ai_n9443747/pg_4/?tag=content;col1

 

Many studies have been completed during the past 20 years that examine the academic achievement of the homeeducated (Ray, 2004b). Dozens of researchers have executed these studies. Examples of these studies ranged from a multiyear study in Washington state, three nationwide studies across the United States, and a nationwide study in Canada (Ray, 1994, 1997, 2001c; Rudner, 1999; Wartes, 1991). In study after study, the homeschooled scored, on average, at the 65th to 80th percentile on standardized academic achievement tests in the United States and Canada, compared to the public school average of the 50th percentile.

 

how home-schooled students at their institution compared to their general student population in terms of academic success. About nine percent said "far more academically successful," 22 percent reported "somewhat more academically successful," 38 percent said "academically about average," zero percent reported "somewhat less academically successful," zero percent said "far less academically successful," and 31 percent said "don't know."

 

 

OK

These statistics make no sense.  Of course the average public school student ranks at 50%.  50% is the exact middle between 1 and 100.  A more comparable static would take the kids from the public schools that have parents who are highly involved in there kids life.  IE the ones that care how well there kids do in school and make sure every night that they get their homework done.  If you can't do that.  Just take the kids who are involved in any extracurricular event and compare their success to home school kids.

 

[roxmom]

As usual, we want to try to make everyone happy in this world and it just is not like that.  Somewhere, sometime in life, people are just going to have to learn that you have to make choices in life and then you have to live with them.  You cannot have everything your way every time, at least that is what my momma and daddy taught me.  

 

Maybe they can form a homeschool wrestling club and wrestle around the state or with other states.  Then, there is the ISWA which I believe is open to everyone.  

 

I guess I thought public school activities were for enrolled public school students.  

 

I am done, thank you.  

[Holden]

Just to be clear, my situation, dual enrollment, was a little different than this Bill and gave me little advantage in high school athletics.  I had to complete every assignment and test (taken in the presence of the guidence department so that I would not cheat  )every other athlete at LC had to complete.  I was held to the same grade requirements as every other athlete.  Basically I was enrolled as a student but only attended school on test days and for practice.  The only difference for me was instead of of having expert teachers to teach me content, I had to teach myself with the help of my mother (a saint without a college degree). I did eventually start going to school full time my senior year to take calc and chem/phys and other higher level classes.   Now, I'm a public school teacher  ;D  Go figure.

 

[Holden]

By the way, the reason I was homeschooled was because my mother wanted to spend time with me and my sisters.  It had nothing to do with public schools.

[munges]

Where I lived in Florida the graduation rate was one of the lowest in the state. The teen pregancy rate was the highest in the state. Their basketball team was just on ESPN  the other day because of a player shoving a ref. I knew of many parents who chose to homeschool yet their kids played sports. The coaches were grateful for the influence of those who had different standards of what was in this subpar school system. I am glad that the home schooled kids were allowed to be a part of athletics, band, and drama. If we stilled lived their we would have been home schooling and if the kids wanted to playing sports. I personally (my opinion only) think it is a good rule and hope it passes in Indiana.

[KarlHungus]

Would home schooled kids be subject to random drug screenings like public school kids?

[jomar132]

how about making this a 4th class for the "Class" wrestling Argument.

 

Class 1A

Class 2A

Class 3A

Class Home School

[snoopy]

??? I am not as imformed as I need to be. Would the athlete be part of a school team or could they enter as an independent.

 

Most of my experience with homeschooled kids is in Driver Education. They are usually ahead in knowledge, but behind in social skills.

[KarlHungus]

??? I am not as imformed as I need to be. Would the athlete be part of a school team or could they enter as an independent.

 

Most of my experience with homeschooled kids is in Driver Education. They are usually ahead in knowledge, but behind in social skills.

 

snoopy, if they live in your district, they would compete for you.  Unless they were real good and wanted to go to Rochester.  I kid.

[hummels]

These statistics make no sense.  Of course the average public school student ranks at 50%.  50% is the exact middle between 1 and 100.

Look around you.  One Half of your friends are below average!!

[BeastMode#31]

You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you choose to homeschool  your kids you also choose to not have them involved in school activities.  This opens up a huge can of worms as to transferring and other regulations that normal kids have to go through.

 

Can homeschool families "choose" not to pay the portion of their taxes that goes to public school funding? I don't think so....until then they should be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities provided by these schools

[KarlHungus]

Can homeschool families "choose" not to pay the portion of their taxes that goes to public school funding? I don't think so....until then they should be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities provided by these schools

 

Aren't high school programs self funded?

[sarto]

I have not posted on here in quite a while (since the old forum, hence the lack of posts recorded in my sidebar), but this thread spurred me to re-activate my account. 

 

It seems to me that there are multiple arguments going on here.  One is concerning the merits of the bill.  Another is concerning the merits of homeschooling itself. 

 

As to the first, all things being equal, what harm can come from opening this most noble sport up to an ever increasing number of highly talented kids?  All of the (few) legitimate objections are easily addressed.  The remaining objections have more to do with concerns about homeschooling itself than whether or not to allow homeschooled kids to compete. 

 

As to the second, in the early days of homeschooling two primary concerns were argued:

1) That the kids would be socially inept.

2) That the kids would be poorly educated.

 

The socialization objection has been discredited and is rarely used anymore, certainly not by anyone who has bothered to look into the question.  Anyone who has been around children within any educational model knows that there are plenty of examples of the poorly socialized in each.  Walk through any public school and then tell me there is not a 'socialization problem'.  And quite frankly, who determines what is 'properly socialized'?  As a side note, if this is a concern for anyone, wouldn't we want to open up social activities (sports, etc.) to homeschoolers for their betterment?  That is, if we are actually concerned for them.

 

The education objection has been shown to have no merit.  On average, homeschooled children consistently out-perform their public and private school counterparts.  This has been demonstrated by numerous studies.  Colleges and Universities now actively recruit them.  Businesses actively recruit them.  Why?  They have been formed to think rather than being spoon fed a minimum amount of information for testing purposes.

 

I know that I am perhaps painting with too broad a brush and I apologize.  I am trying to keep this post short.  I would be happy to provide more specific information and evidence or to discuss it further if anyone is interested.

 

The following article addresses some of these points (back by evidence) if anyone is interested in looking further into the question:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

[TripleB]

I'm not arguing the fact about education vs education, socialization skills or any of that.

 

My questions/concerns are #1) will they be held to the same academic testing and eligibility that their public counterparts are? 2) Schools get money off of enrollment numbers, will these students count towards enrollment figures or be ghost students? 3) What about classing, schools are classed based off enrollment, sometimes it's a matter of 2-3 students, will home school numbers count towards those numbers.

[IntegratedCarp]

I'm not arguing the fact about education vs education, socialization skills or any of that.

 

My questions/concerns are #1) will they be held to the same academic testing and eligibility that their public counterparts are? 2) Schools get money off of enrollment numbers, will these students count towards enrollment figures or be ghost students? 3) What about classing, schools are classed based off enrollment, sometimes it's a matter of 2-3 students, will home school numbers count towards those numbers.

There are all excellent questions.  I was wondering the exact same thing!