Schoolboy Duals

[bellrs]

Rosters are posted on Trackwrestling.  Any thoughts on why IN cannot fill a Greco team?  It looks like blue team will have about 6 ffs and it did not look like Gold was full either.  Is it lack of interest, cost, other reasons??  It is not a good representation for the host state. 

[edb41]

We are sitting watching & wondering the same thing. The blue team was ahead on the may but lost because of forfeits, gold team dominated Colorado in the first round

[quinnsDAD]

never seen any mention of a need for an 84 for greco or we would have been there, finished 4th at state. good luck to all.

[Signal34]

I am guessing cost and lack of communication, it's a local tournament and it still costs an arm and leg.

 

[edb41]

never seen any mention of a need for an 84 for greco or we would have been there, finished 4th at state. good luck to all.

 

We'd have loved to have seen you there, the experience for my son has been OUTSTANDING, anyone that gets a chance to do it should. I guess that makes me wonder more why the spots aren't full. I'm sure it's timing, money and maybe some communication.

[bellrs]

Quinnsdad,

That is funny, another parent and I actually talked about that today.  I said that I bet Quinn would have taken the spot if they posted it and the other parent said that he would have been next in line based on placement so she was sure that they would have called him.  I guess our logical assumption was wrong.   There were only a handful of spots listed as being left open on this message board.   Most of them, including 84, were not mentioned.  The Blue Team got 7th out of 7 in their pool today due to giving up 8 forfeits each round.  It is just not fair to the kids that are out there winning their individual matches.

 

My son was not able to participate at FS/GR state this year so he did not have a shot to be on one of the teams.  However, I know he will be very disappointed next year if he is on a team that is missing 8 wrestlers.  Although he was individually undefeated in Middle School this year, he did not enjoy participating in the school duals because his team lost every week due to forfeits.  It just takes some of the fun out of it when you know that the team does not have a chance at winning as a group.  

I did not mean to start a thread for me to gripe...  I really am hoping that someone may have some suggestions for improvement.  I know low numbers at State is a factor, cost of being on the team is another.  The Greco rules and the fact that so many people are afraid of it is likely a big factor also.    Thoughts?

[Mattyb]

never seen any mention of a need for an 84 for greco or we would have been there, finished 4th at state. good luck to all.

 

For sure! Quinn would have loved to wrestle this weekend. He would have been a great host! I know that his dad has not told him that the spot went empty. The little dude will be crushed. Hopefully we will be able to field these teams from this point forward. Good luck to all!

[quinnsDAD]

looks like gold freestyle kicked some butt nice job    I would have to agree cost has alot to do with not having full teams but for all that you get 3 day camp with some of best coaches in state and with the best wrestlers in the state and then the warm ups singlets it is a great deal the fact it is here in our state saves us locals even more so it is disappionting not to have a better showing and from what I see about cadet and juniors it is the same thing plus the duals for them have to compete with disney and fargo all costly trips. without some fundrising help I don't see this trend changing.  how many clubs help thier wrestlers who make these teams with cost? I know ours has a provision in our bylaws if it is a iswa usa wrestling event. I would guess at this age group alot of kids are still playing baseball soccer and that is a factor. maybe the same system that is in place for older kids now would work as well. I would hate to see the state lose this event.

[Infolady]

I would like feedback from coaches and parents regarding the lack of participation in this event. Should the ISWA eliminate the camp? Should they eliminate some of the equipment? Should they just field one team per style or 2 freestyle teams and only 1 Greco? There are 31 freestyle teams and 28 Greco teams participating this year. The ISWA had to turn some Greco teams away because, due to time, 28 is the maximum Greco teams allowed at this event. It is sad that so many other states are excited about this event and we can?t field 2 teams per style when it in our own backyard. Something needs to change. 

 

Two other factors that impact the lack of participation are the trend toward Folkstyle and the Disney Duals. I think we need to come up with some answers because the ISWA is at risk of losing this event. There are several other states that would love to host it. 

 

[Jacob]

I would like feedback from coaches and parents regarding the lack of participation in this event. Should the ISWA eliminate the camp? Should they eliminate some of the equipment? Should they just field one team per style or 2 freestyle teams and only 1 Greco? There are 31 freestyle teams and 28 Greco teams participating this year. The ISWA had to turn some Greco teams away because, due to time, 28 is the maximum Greco teams allowed at this event. It is sad that so many other states are excited about this event and we can?t field 2 teams per style when it in our own backyard. Something needs to change. 

 

Two other factors that impact the lack of participation are the trend toward Folkstyle and the Disney Duals. I think we need to come up with some answers because the ISWA is at risk of losing this event. There are several other states that would love to host it. 

 

 

I would suggest that the ISWA start useing true placement in how their tournaments are done. Get the best wrestlers on these teams and only then will you see more participation. My only interest in posting this is to improve the quality of Indiana wrestling. My kid is a freshman next year.

You have people who are running things that have been doing so for a long time in some cases. When they started, maybe the way things were done was the best way at the time. The problem is that, their way is the only way. When you have the best kids meeting each other in rounds one and two of tournaments that will determing the placement of wrestlers on these teams is wrong.

I have not been around youth wrestling as long as they have so my opinion, like yours does not count. Start useing qualifying tournaments to seed wrestlers.

[Mattyb]

I have a son who had the good fortune to attend the Elementary duals in Kingsport, TN this year. This is an event which takes a similar commitment. It was an awesome experience. It was 7.5 hours from Indy and there were 4 very good teams from Indiana (I do realize that this was a folkstyle event). Tennesee had just one team, who was not up to par. In the back of my mind I was thinking "Really?! This is not how a host state should be represented. "

 

I  do realize that the Schoolboy teams are made up of the top two finishers in each weight class, and many do not accept this honor for many reasons. Which is understandable. With the little guys, many boys were unable to make the trip also. We has a team mom who was really on top of things and did everything in her power to fill our teams (thanks Brandi!). Perhaps that the team leadership could appoint one person whos sole commitment would be to fill the teams. Again, please don't take this the wrong way just a suggestion to help. I know a lot of effort was put into all teams from many people.

 

As far as cost, we at our club have a provision within our by laws which allows assistance to any boy who has the honor of attending such an event. I do realize that not all clubs have the funds to do so, but the ones that do could step up or at the very least help the boys raise funds. Or perhaps the boys who commit early for the team could do a fundraiser to help lower cost for themselves.

 

As a parent of an younger wrestler, I would love to see as many opprotunities for my son to remain open, and for the duels to stay local. I am sure with all the great volunteers and clubs which we have here in Indiana, that we can keep this going.

 

Good luck to all of the boys today!

 

 

[indyfire]

I would  be against seeding wrestlers for a tournament.  My son does not  know the weight classes he is going until a couple days before the state tournament.   He does not want to lose weight.  These tournaments are to get kids better for high school.   The camps are more important than new  sweatsuits.  I hope the tournament is keep in Indianapolis because it fill be harder to fill a travel team.  The camps should not be mandatory at schoolboy level. 

[Jacob]

I would  be against seeding wrestlers for a tournament.  My son does not  know the weight classes he is going until a couple days before the state tournament.   He does not want to lose weight.  These tournaments are to get kids better for high school.   The camps are more important than new  sweatsuits.  I hope the tournament is keep in Indianapolis because it fill be harder to fill a travel team.  The camps should not be mandatory at schoolboy level.   

 

Than be prepared for Indiana to continue as a whole to be behind other states because until the problem of being able to put the best we have on the mat. We will continue to be second third and so on.

I f you don`t want to declare a weight than there could be a provision that  a wrestler who was not in enough competition to be seede at a weight could receive a blind draw for that weight. Keep in mind that they would be put with the seeded wrestlers first. If they are the best than they will win. Saying this, it gives the wrestlers who win week in and week out the chance not to meet the other kids right off the bat who are the same calibre. By doing this, we will have the absolute best meeting in the end for first and second.

[indyfire]

I am fine with that because my sons  are more worried about how they wrestle than placement on stand.    Some kids that use to finish higher than oldest boy have quit because parents are to worried about winning and losing.  I would like to see true seconds at ISWA Folksytle  State.

[tspray1]

What states seed their state wrestling tournament?  Wisconsin and Minnesota don't.  Wisconsin takes 1 team with an alt at every other weight class, sometimes they have alts in several weights in a row. Typically in the state here the best kids win and sometimes the two best kids are on the same side of bracket.. if there are 6 or more kids they have a pool a and pool b.  So sometimes the best and second best kid could finish 1st and third.  The coaches know this because they have the same guy that does every age group Schoolboy-Junior.  He is the head coach at a d2 college Mike Dehroen.  He really puts the time in and coaches that are selected to help know all the kids coming thru.  No state is going to be the same as others.  Wisconsin had several kids that were probably 2nd or 3 or even 4th best in the state at this years Duals.  Not every top kid is going to go from every state.

 

From what i have heard from coaches is that it is cheaper for MN and WIS teams at the cadet and Junior Lvl than the Indiana teams... Now I am not sure about the schoolboy team since it is held in Indiana

[Jacob]

What states seed their state wrestling tournament?  Wisconsin and Minnesota don't.  Wisconsin takes 1 team with an alt at every other weight class, sometimes they have alts in several weights in a row. Typically in the state here the best kids win and sometimes the two best kids are on the same side of bracket.. if there are 6 or more kids they have a pool a and pool b.  So sometimes the best and second best kid could finish 1st and third.  The coaches know this because they have the same guy that does every age group Schoolboy-Junior.  He is the head coach at a d2 college Mike Dehroen.  He really puts the time in and coaches that are selected to help know all the kids coming thru.  No state is going to be the same as others.  Wisconsin had several kids that were probably 2nd or 3 or even 4th best in the state at this years Duals.  Not every top kid is going to go from every state.

 

From what i have heard from coaches is that it is cheaper for MN and WIS teams at the cadet and Junior Lvl than the Indiana teams... Now I am not sure about the schoolboy team since it is held in Indiana

 

The question posed was how to get more wrestlers to fiel our teams. The way it is done now is not doing that. Your reply is to leave it the way it is. That solves nothing. What they do in other states may or may not work for them. What we are doing here is not working for us.

[tspray1]

No my reply is why do you need two teams?  The gold team did real well this weekend.  Having the blue team gave some kids valuable mat time.  Would it have been nice to field two teams ..sure it would of.  Look at most of the 2nd teams entered from other states they had the same issue.

[indyfire]

I would be in favor of having alternates in the place of 2 teams.  If a wrestler was in both styles he could have been wrestling close to 20 times.  Lets do something different and ask the kids what they want.

[quinnsDAD]

congrats to the gold team freestyle 7th out 31  great job. Tommy Cash Cody Lecount both 11 -0 for weekend.

[Y2CJ41]

I would suggest that the ISWA start useing true placement in how their tournaments are done. Get the best wrestlers on these teams and only then will you see more participation. My only interest in posting this is to improve the quality of Indiana wrestling. My kid is a freshman next year.

You have people who are running things that have been doing so for a long time in some cases. When they started, maybe the way things were done was the best way at the time. The problem is that, their way is the only way. When you have the best kids meeting each other in rounds one and two of tournaments that will determing the placement of wrestlers on these teams is wrong.

I have not been around youth wrestling as long as they have so my opinion, like yours does not count. Start useing qualifying tournaments to seed wrestlers.

The only way to get a true placement is for everyone in the weight class to wrestle eachother.  If you want a line bracket then you are risking leaving the second or even third best wrestler at home since they could not necessarily finish in those respective placements.  No pairing system allows for a perfect placement of anything beyond the second place finisher.  I have seen line brackets where the to three wrestlers finished first, third and fifth or worse.  Vertical pairing will guarantee the top two are placed right with a lot better chance of getting the third place finisher in the right spot too.

 

You have probably never been to a seeding meeting and I can tell you from eight years of experience that they are not fun when the kids have wrestled eachother and have numerous common opponents.  To have a seeding meeting with a bunch of kids that most likely have very limited results would take over a week to complete. 

[navy80]

Did anyone notice Indiana won Schoolboy duals?

[quinnsDAD]

they won their pool finished 7th over all in freestyle

[dad2cash]

I personally am not for seeding our tournaments but in favor of a true second in Folk style.

When building a team or teams 1 and 2 are all that really matter. Seeding a tournament can be a very treacherous ordeal  at the youth level.

 

As far as free style goes, vertical pairing does that for you.

 

I personally don't understand the camp unless it is for making sure the wrestlers are on weight before the tournament. They have already proven they have the skills or they wouldn't be there.

 

One of the most important aspects to making these teams for the kids is the gear. Just ask USA wrestling how the kids feel and act about their singlets.

 

I am very happy that ISWA is taking a proactive approach to our wrestling programs and looking for feedback from the wrestling community. I look forward to being apart of Indiana continually growing and moving forward.

I believe we have made a lot of progression in the past few years and the ISWA has made an effort too listen and deliver.

 

I am still hoping for kids to get to wrestle out of their division in some way. Age or Weight.

[AJ]

Very few, if any, second teams filled a full roster.

The overwhelming majority of teams outside of the top 8 in freestyle did not fill a full roster either.

Indiana was one of numerous teams to have forfeits, although our greco blue forfeits were very high as were our freestyle blue forfeits.

Freestyle blue was actually able to win 2 duals ans was  forfeiting the last 4 weight classes.

 

Oklahama has a unique way of fielding their second team. Their second team is ALL 1st year schoolboys.  If a 1st year schoolboy is best in weight then that wrestler is on the top team, but another 1st year schoolboy goes on the 2nd team.  They dont worry about the 22nd team results, but rather about getting them the experience of wrestling in the duals.

 

I was very proud at how all 4 Indiana teams wrestled this past weekend.

[bellrs]

My initial question was about quantity, not quality.  My biggest concern is getting the spots filled.  Kudos to all of the kids that represented IN this weekend.  

There were several wrestlers that placed at both FS and Greco and only chose to wrestle FS. It would be nice to see that change.  I know it is a long week with the camp and both FS and GR.

Can ISWA integrate fundraising for these teams into their tournments?  As a parent of a schoolboy, I would be more than willing to pay an extra $1 as a schoolboy surcharge at every FS and Greco tournament (only schoolboys would pay it). With all of the tournaments around the state, that could help a little.   What about a tournament where all proceeds go to the team? Just a few thoughts.

Interesting idea that Oklahoma has, that is one way to hopefully prepare a team for the following year.  How did their first team do this year?