Dingo Brigade Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I watched that ESPN special on the Brandon FL team a couple of years ago when their ridiculous string of victories was broken. They showed clips of their wrestlers at the FL state tourney and I saw a lot of shoddy wrestling (hip tosses, head locks, etc) that you would never see at Conseco. Now maybe FL h.s. wrestling has vastly improved in the 2 or 3 years since that show was taped, but from what I saw, FL h.s. wrestling was very weak compared to IN h.s. wrestling. Rather than bring up a bogus wrestling state like FL to compare Mish to, how about someone talking about elite teams from real wrestling states like OH, PA, IA and IL. Yeah, you're right. I think Cozart's boy pinned his finals opponent with a leg cradle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikev Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 isn't florida a "class" wrestling system?......and brandon is one of the smaller sized schools?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 isn't florida a "class" wrestling system?......and brandon is one of the smaller sized schools?....... LOL......oh, boy......here we go again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiralride1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I watched that ESPN special on the Brandon FL team a couple of years ago when their ridiculous string of victories was broken. They showed clips of their wrestlers at the FL state tourney and I saw a lot of shoddy wrestling (hip tosses, head locks, etc) that you would never see at Conseco. Now maybe FL h.s. wrestling has vastly improved in the 2 or 3 years since that show was taped, but from what I saw, FL h.s. wrestling was very weak compared to IN h.s. wrestling. Rather than bring up a bogus wrestling state like FL to compare Mish to, how about someone talking about elite teams from real wrestling states like OH, PA, IA and IL. I was thinking the same thing. I watched that same piece and I saw a lot of throws, climbing over a whizzer, etc. Stuff that made me cringe as a coach. I also questioned the depth of their weight classes in the Grajales could win by fall from a leg cradle for a state title?!?!?! Come on now, I know he is good ...... but ......if you are bad enough to get pinned in a leg cradle in the state finals?! Maybe Im missing something here. . . . . PS Not bashing FL wrestling, just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLwrestling Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Indiana wrestling as a whole is better. FL, however, is improving. The difference is there is a much larger competitive middle tier of teams in IN then FL and the Middle School systems in IN are light years better then FL (with the exception of the Miami area). The best teams in FL are very good. The middle teams are not very good and the bad are bad - that is universal. The better teams travel to out of state tourneys each year around Christmas time and compete with some of the nations better teams. One team went to the Powerade tourney in PA, another wrestled Bishop Lynch in TX at their duals. Brandon went to the Cheesehead and got 2nd....other teams traveled to Collins Hill GA and some tourneys in VA. It's become common for teams to travel each year here. FL has potential to become a great wrestling state in time....more and more coaches are moving from northern areas like PA, NJ, NY, and OH to Florida and are taking over programs here. FL also has an abundance of athletes in some areas that catch on very quick, despite what age they start at. This transition will still take awhile but it is growing. Indiana is still a very good and deep wrestling state and will always be...but the good teams in FL are very good as well. It would be fun to see some of the best of the best compete in a dual wise tourney in March but not really a realistic idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Jay Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Go watch the Florida teams at the Duals at Wabash College. They are very atheltic wrestlers who like to throw alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 and yet the state has produced more all americans than Indiana in the last 50 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 As long as Indiana has that ridiculous rule about not being able to compete against teams more than 300 miles away (is that the right distance?), we'll never see how well our best stack up against the rest of the country. If I understand the rule right (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), even if Brandon were to come to Indiana, none of our teams could wrestle them. Doesn't the rule say the team, not the site, can't be more than 300 miles away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebear Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Have to agree with olddawg,it was a weak year for team state this year.Not much competition out there.IMO Mishawaka's 08 team was much tougher than this years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I was thinking the same thing. I watched that same piece and I saw a lot of throws, climbing over a whizzer, etc. Stuff that made me cringe as a coach. I also questioned the depth of their weight classes in the Grajales could win by fall from a leg cradle for a state title?!?!?! Come on now, I know he is good ...... but ......if you are bad enough to get pinned in a leg cradle in the state finals?! Maybe Im missing something here. . . . . PS Not bashing FL wrestling, just an observation. You're right, it was Grajales. I couldn't quite believe my eyes. Kid is a huge stud and all, but c'mon...It's not like Pennsylvania and their infamous cement jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 isn't florida a "class" wrestling system?......and brandon is one of the smaller sized schools?....... No. Brandon is a 3A school- the biggest division. It is a smaller 3A school and on occasion dips into 2A, but one has to remember there are schools many in SE Florida and Orlando that are bigger than BD, NC, Carmel, etc... Consequently Florida's 2A is full of giant schools too. Brandon's enrollment is right around 2100, a big school by any one's standards and one of the Bigger schools on the west coast of FLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonjm Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Brandon is a 2A FLORIDA school, up from 1A just these last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Indiana has made huge strides in the past 10 years and is now a legitimate top 10 wrestling state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 and yet the state has produced more all americans than Indiana in the last 50 years Are you saying their h.s wrestling is better than IN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISHCAVEFAN Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 hmm we could go on about this but lets keep it positive ;D. They did win state.. And I am very confident in saying they would have won state with or without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 and yet the state has produced more all americans than Indiana in the last 50 years Maybe that blame goes on the college wrestling programs. Not the state they came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Brandon is a 2A FLORIDA school, up from 1A just these last two years. Sorry. Brandon is a 3A school- up from a couple of years from 2A. They bounce back and forth beteween the 2 classes. 2 A was won by Oviedo in Orlando and 1A by Gulf in New Port Richey. FHSAA 3-A WRESTLING FINALs Team Scores February 19-20, 2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. BRANDON 239.50 2. OSCEOLA (Kissimmee) 134.50 3. AMERICAN (Hialeah) 132.00 4. COLUMBUS (Miami) 101.00 5. SOUTH DADE (Homestead) 89.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Maybe that blame goes on the college wrestling programs. Not the state they came from. The statistic is based on wrestlers who went to high school in Indiana vs. wrestlers who went to high school in Florida. Unless you are insinuating that the Florida kids went to better colleges. Florida wrestling is on par with Indiana wrestling based off national meet results at Fargo and tournaments like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 The statistic is based on wrestlers who went to high school in Indiana vs. wrestlers who went to high school in Florida. Unless you are insinuating that the Florida kids went to better colleges. Florida wrestling is on par with Indiana wrestling based off national meet results at Fargo and tournaments like that. I understand that, but what I'm wondering if colleges deserve part of the blame for not developing certain high school studs into AA's. Does Matt Coughlin's career look different if he goes somewhere else? I don't know the answer, but I don't think you can discount the colleges in the equation, even if you think it's a small part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheap tilt Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Exactly right. Not a weak link among them. no weak links, just a wrestler who set the record for worst record at the state tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheap tilt Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I think #19 is pretty appropriate Mishiwaka was a very good team in a fairly weak year for teams in the state After losing 8 starters from 08-09, all of us at Crown Point thought we were going to really struggle as a team this year, I bet Crown Point has had 5-10 teams since Vlink arrived that were better than this one and we were still arguably the 2nd best team in the state. just wondering, who in indiana gave mishawaka their closest team duel match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I believe Penn and Portage both game mishawaka about a 15 point match...... Now Penn was so close thanks to a fluke pin... Binion was up big and got pinned after being countered on a blast double with less than a minute to go.... Portage was at the Tricoff, which is a tough tourney... i have no idea who was in their lineup, it is possible they gave a wrestler or 2 a match off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 no weak links, just a wrestler who set the record for worst record at the state tournament Well he was weak to beging the year..... but he wasn't a weak link come the end of the year.... he improved a ton. Plus Mishawaka wrestles prehaps the toughest schedule in the state, with some other schools he may have been a 5 loss wrestler, but prolly wouldn't have improved enought to make state like he did with Mishawaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 no weak links, just a wrestler who set the record for worst record at the state tournament You can't possibly be calling a state qualifier from the semistate with the most recent success a weak link....right? A state qualifier is a state qualifier in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 You can't possibly be calling a state qualifier from the semistate with the most recent success a weak link....right? A state qualifier is a state qualifier in my book. Agreed, but not every weight class at Merrillville was stacked. Merrillville didn't even put a guy in the top 4 at 189 if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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