meto Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I am the new Women's Director for the ISWA and I have seen all kinds of women's wrestling the past four years. I have seen extremely good wrestlers who have well over 100+ wins in their HS career and I have seen some terrible women wrestling where they almost fall to straight to their backs. Let me preface this by saying that I have seen national champ men wrestlers and I have seen men who almost fall straight to their backs. My point is that the women need support and training to be great wrestlers, just like the guys. I am in full support of having a seperate women's HS division for women, but that will not occur until we support all of the women and encourage them to continue to wrestle. As these posts point out, there is mixed support out there. As women's director, I don't expect anyone to treat the women any different and expect no less from them if the elect to wrestle on a mens team. Support and grow women's wrestling. Trust me it's not going to go away. The more support and participation there is, the more the women will compete and train together. For those who don't want to wrestle women, why? Most have wrestled for years and have been in every situation that you could put her in while wrestling. Just support your women wrestlers, encourage them, show them the opportunities in women wrestling. Most women wrestlers get involved the same way the men do, they have a father, brother, or cousin that wrestles. Just treat them the same as you would anyone else on your team! For more information about women's wrestling see iswa.com (women's wrestling information), usgwa.com, and themat.com (women) then can the boys start playing girls vollyball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 That would be just fine with me!! I have no idea about volleyball. But if there are boys that want to participate, then that's just fine with me. Same with Gymnastics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Willmann Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Men aren't allowed to compete in women's volleyball in high school because the men's height for the net in volleyball is higher than the womens. Gymnastics compete in different disciplines for men than they do for women. I have no clue why they aren't allowed to play softball. These are just what I have been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmandonna Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I am the new Women's Director for the ISWA and I have seen all kinds of women's wrestling the past four years. I have seen extremely good wrestlers who have well over 100+ wins in their HS career and I have seen some terrible women wrestling where they almost fall to straight to their backs. Let me preface this by saying that I have seen national champ men wrestlers and I have seen men who almost fall straight to their backs. My point is that the women need support and training to be great wrestlers, just like the guys. I am in full support of having a seperate women's HS division for women, but that will not occur until we support all of the women and encourage them to continue to wrestle. As these posts point out, there is mixed support out there. As women's director, I don't expect anyone to treat the women any different and expect no less from them if the elect to wrestle on a mens team. Support and grow women's wrestling. Trust me it's not going to go away. The more support and participation there is, the more the women will compete and train together. For those who don't want to wrestle women, why? Most have wrestled for years and have been in every situation that you could put her in while wrestling. Just support your women wrestlers, encourage them, show them the opportunities in women wrestling. Most women wrestlers get involved the same way the men do, they have a father, brother, or cousin that wrestles. Just treat them the same as you would anyone else on your team! For more information about women's wrestling see iswa.com (women's wrestling information), usgwa.com, and themat.com (women) STRUB1 i would like to thank you for all that you do! it must be a very difficult job showing that women can compete in a man's sport. I have no problem with boys being in girls sports, as a matter of fact, i support it 100%. My daughter is is a wrstler , and like you said she got into the sport because of her dad nad uncle. He uncle was the 1stand only to go to state from our school. She wants to try as hard as she can to make it there someday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think this really a parental decision, not a coaches. As a father I wouldn't let my younger daughter wrestle or play football, for different reasons, even though she wanted to. I was more concerned about injuries and the muscle difference in football. In wrestling I just think many of the hold are too "familiar" to be co-ed. I remember one coach (I think it was Matt Land when he coached Northrop) telling about a time when a couple of girls wanted to wrestle for him. First he had a meeting with the parents and had a couple of wrestlers demonstrate some of the holds that male wrestlers could legally use against females opponents. If the parents were OK with it the girls were welcome on the team. BTW - my daughter did make the all-conference academic team in wrestling her senior year, as a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My concern has nothing to do with "how good" a female wrestler could / would be. It is a question of "proximity". Many of the moves and holds place the wrestlers in very tight situations. I did not have a problem with it until I heard some of our wrestler talking about the moves they would not use against a girl. Moves that put their hands or face or groin in close proximity to a girls face, hands or groin. In my opinion if due to "moral objection" one of my wrestlers has to limit what they do, we have a problem. I know many will say that "it is the boys problem not the girls". Well I have a son who is a Junior and wrestles and I expect and teach him to treat a girl with respect. It would be very hard for him to see a female opponent, and mentally show the same aggression as he sees a male opponent. It goes against the "respect" issue. Hard one for me to put in words, but sometimes doing the right thing must go beyond what is right for the girls. The right choice for society and the views of the boys should be considered. Fire away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central111 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 i have been around this sport my whole life and still have yet to see a girl beat a guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 i have been around this sport my whole life and still have yet to see a girl beat a guy There is a 8th grader here in Monroe County who has 3 FS State Titles here and 3 more in Washington State. All in the boys bracket, trust me she has beat a lot of boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have a step daughter and cringe when I hear this topic. Personally I think girls should have every opportunity that boys have, but wrestling against boys isn't one of them. I have seen some girls that do compete as well as any boy and present themselves very well, but I've also seen girls that were on wrestling teams that seemed to be doing it for the attention and nothing else (not like I haven't seen the same for some boys). A couple of years ago they had a girl in Sports Illustrated that won state in wrestling in Alaska, so it has happened. So there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hawaii has separate girls and boys wrestling state tournaments. Along with Texas and I think Washington. There was a girl that won a state championship against boys in Alaska about 3 or 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightinstructor Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 i have been around this sport my whole life and still have yet to see a girl beat a guy In Indiana? Lets not forget the very tough Stout girls from Delta, I know personally 3(4 including myself) IHSAA State Champions that have accrued losses to these "girls". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratelooksat30 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 How about when a female wrestler is simply out matched in her weight class? I know of a girl that is coming out for a team and she is going to wrestle 189. The coach is scared to death that this girl will get seriously injured in the practice room. This girl is not in any kind of shape, and has zero athletic ability. She is going to wrestle boys that are some of the best and strongest athletes in the school. Legally the coach has to let the lady wrestle, but how does he approach this situation? The coach shouldn't have to change up the practice to accommodate one wrestler that is truly out of her league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIREPROOF Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My concern has nothing to do with "how good" a female wrestler could / would be. It is a question of "proximity". Many of the moves and holds place the wrestlers in very tight situations. I did not have a problem with it until I heard some of our wrestler talking about the moves they would not use against a girl. Moves that put their hands or face or groin in close proximity to a girls face, hands or groin. In my opinion if due to "moral objection" one of my wrestlers has to limit what they do, we have a problem. I know many will say that "it is the boys problem not the girls". Well I have a son who is a Junior and wrestles and I expect and teach him to treat a girl with respect. It would be very hard for him to see a female opponent, and mentally show the same aggression as he sees a male opponent. It goes against the "respect" issue. Hard one for me to put in words, but sometimes doing the right thing must go beyond what is right for the girls. The right choice for society and the views of the boys should be considered. Fire away! I completely and totally agree with the above post from SlickRodz. As parents, we teach our sons how to respect and treat a woman. What kind of mixed signals are we teaching our sons when they step onto a mat with a girl? There are some outstanding female wrestlers throughout this country. My son had his clocked cleaned by a couple at a national tournament two years ago. I don't have a problem with them wrestling as long as they wrestle other females. The ISWA has tried to respond to the increased number of female wrestlers by offering a ISWA Women's tournament in the past, which I think is great. As a parent of a daughter, I would feel like my daughter is being "violated" because of some of the wrestling holds and moves that are run. Off the mat I would not stand for a male to place his hands in those places in my presence, yet on the mat its acceptable? What kind of message does that send to your daughter? In my opinion, I don't think it has anything to do with how hard they work or how much time they put in, it is strictly a moral issue. The older the girls get the more of a problem I think it becomes. I know at our high school there have been female wrestlers in middle school and the high school boys DO NOT want them in the wrestling room with them, contrary to what the girls believe. I have seen and heard first hand what these young boys think and do when a girl steps onto the mat and it is intemidating to them. They don't know what to do or how they should handle the situation. I also think there are many fathers who do not have boys and they are trying to live out their dreams in their daughters by having them wrestle. I am curious as to how many of these females if you questioned them one on one with no parental influence would admit that they truly want and like to wrestle. As our son gets older, the number of female wrestlers he has come across has decreased, but our philosophy has remained the same...When they step on the mat they are just another wrestler and you go after them as you would any other opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 As a parent of a daughter, I would feel like my daughter is being "violated" because of some of the wrestling holds and moves that are run. Off the mat I would not stand for a male to place his hands in those places in my presence, yet on the mat its acceptable? What kind of message does that send to your daughter? I am not sure that I am understanding your argument.... What your saying is that it is acceptable, away from the wrestling mat, for one male to place his hands or do a move to another male? I am not sure what kind of work environment you are in, but most things that happen on a wrestling mat are only "acceptable" ON A wrestling mat, and not away from it. I am not sure how this argument is supposed to apply to girls wrestling. All I know is that I would not want to open myself up to a lawsuit just because of some personal notion that girls and guys shouldn't be touching. It's a sport, not a Friday night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIREPROOF Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 decbell1- NO NO NO, i do not believe its acceptable away from the mat and i don't think its acceptable on the mat as far as males wrestling females. Wrestling in unlike any other sport as far as contact goes and I under no circumstances would allow my daughter to be placed in a position to subject herself to a sport where contact occurs like it does in wrestling in a male vs female match. I just think it sends a mixed message to both young men and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hawaii has separate girls and boys wrestling state tournaments. Along with Texas and I think Washington. There was a girl that won a state championship against boys in Alaska about 3 or 4 years ago. Michaela Huthison(sp) is the girl you are referring to. She now wrestles at OCU and I believe was the first female to beat a male wrestler in a college match last year. I'm not sure why it didn't make that much national attention though, that really could have helped benefit women's wrestling nation wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle103 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 i think that when you step on a mat then you wrestle. it doesnt matter if a male is afraid to touch a female a certain way or if its the other way around. if thats the case then they shouldnt wrestle. a wrestler should have the drive and competition to want to beat anyone who steps on the mat. boy or girls whatever they are both wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM2004 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 HAHA...man this is a loaded question...First off correction Rachel Monroe from Sullivan High School was Indiana's first female sectional champion (2002). Its hard to put a woman in the same category as a man in the sport of wrestling. I have had the unique oppurtunity to wrestle with some of the best women's wrestlers in the country ( Randy Miller, Marry Kelly) just to name a few. I think women wrestlers should have there own class in high school because it would level the playing field for them ( i know there are some girls winning against boyz but far and few between) and build there confidence to pursue the sport further for future women in the sport. Just my thought on things since i have seen all ranges of female wrestling from elementry to the best in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 No, the moral of the story should be.....if one is making a point in a discssion then one should have their facts correct or one loses credibility The issue is obviously very complex. In a perfect world the women would wrestle only women, and this conversation wouldn't even be necessary. In the meantime, bashing the women who attempt to participate in the current circumstances isn't going to resolve the issue. For example, threatening to, or using mat assignments as an attempt at an insult is not promoting a resolution to the real problem. Would you agree Greco? The moral, ethical, social issues are real. You may not agree with women wrestling men. The best case scenario is female wrestling. How can 'we' advance that cause? Stub1, you have wahoo's for life from all the 'AWoods'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I agree that this is a very complex issue. I wrestled in the early 80's and I have no idea how I would have reacted to wrestling a women. I understand the point about having boys touching girls while on the mat. But every time I have seen a boy wrestle a girl, they either don't act any different than wrestling a boy or want to work as hard as they can to win the match quickly. I have NEVER seen a boy taking any pleasure (as it is implied) from wrestling a girl and getting her in those unique situations only in wrestling. To solve everyone's problem with women wrestling against boys would be to support every women who wants to wrestle. Only when the numbers grow to a substantial percentage of the men, will the IHSAA take notice and consider a women's division for wrestling. With only mildly increased numbers, there would be enough women to practice with each other during the men's practices. This would in turn allow for ample opportunities for women to have JV or exhibition matches against other women. By having one women here a couple there and the women that want to wrestle not able to because they are not felt welcomed or the fear of things happening to them, the issue will remain as it is now and unresolved. When the numbers support, the IHSAA would support a women's division with just a few weight classes to start and add more when the numbers grow. There are limited women's high school divisions supported by their state athletic association (Tennessee for example). Just ask yourselves the question, how many additional women would join the wrestling team if it was just women wrestling women? When there is a good number of teams and athletes involved? Not to mention a chance to wrestle for a state title, possible at the same event as the men. My primary duty as Women's Director is to grow the number of women wrestling in Indiana. If you know any women who wrestle now or want to wrestle, direct them to me!! I will get them into women's only competitions, camps, clinics, etc. etc. etc. Check out the ISWA.com website under Women's Wrestling Information. There are many women out there that don't bother seeking other opportunities outside of the HS or MS season, because they think there isn't enough competition with other women. I tell the women I know to train and learn with the boys during the season and be ready to start the women's season when the boys season is over. Darren Strub ISWA Women's Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Ok, 1st, let me say that I am glad to see that this topic has been taken over by well thought out comments and not your typical hit and run type of statements. I no longer have a son involved at the high school level, and I believe the last time he wrestled a girl was as a freshman. I do not have a problem with boys wrestling girls. I think we are geting two very different types of respect confused here. There is a respect you have for a fellow competitor that has the guts to step on the mat, versus the respect that we should all be teaching our sons to have for our, and your daughter. The respect that you have for a competitor is to go out, wrestle hard, and try to end the match quickly. After the match, then you can worry about the other. Like it or not, women are going to continue to wrestle, so we ought to do whatever we can to help promote their access to the sport and to do our best to draw more women into the sport. If you dont want boys and girls wrestling each other, then help bring more girls into the sport so they have their own events. For those arguing that some girls and boys only wish to wrestle each other for the "thrill" of it, that might happen at the Jr. High level, and I know for a fact that it has, but that is where you need to have strong coaches, and parental involvment. At the high school level, those things are going to go away very quickly due to the nature and difficulty of the practice. There are easier ways to get your jollies then going through the torture of a high school wrestling season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmandonna Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 i have been around this sport my whole life and still have yet to see a girl beat a guy My daughter came in 2nd in conference last year. SHe beat 3 boys to do so. and competed well with the guy that won. took him 3 rounds and lost by points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmandonna Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 How about when a female wrestler is simply out matched in her weight class? I know of a girl that is coming out for a team and she is going to wrestle 189. The coach is scared to death that this girl will get seriously injured in the practice room. This girl is not in any kind of shape, and has zero athletic ability. She is going to wrestle boys that are some of the best and strongest athletes in the school. Legally the coach has to let the lady wrestle, but how does he approach this situation? The coach shouldn't have to change up the practice to accommodate one wrestler that is truly out of her league. As long as the girls and her parents know the risk, I see no point in changing anything that they are doing. I know my daughters coach does not change anything. He wants her to be ready to wrestle the best, so she wrestles the best that we have in practice. She is around 115 and most days in practice she is going against our bigger guys most are around 165 and up. and she holds her own with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMWC2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 i have been around this sport my whole life and still have yet to see a girl beat a guy Then you must choose to not watch matches with girls involved. I have only been active in this sport for five years and have seen plenty of girls whip boys. I have a 15 year old son that didn't take wrestling seriously until his 17 year old sister completely humiliated him on the mat at a South Dearborn Middle school match 4 years ago. My daughter didn't look at her opponent and see a boy, she saw a wrestler. And the ones foolish enough to look at her as just a girl, got a butt whooping. With all this crazy talk about gender, shouldn't you be more worried that 2 boys are touching each other "THAT" way. It's a competition, everyone should know what is and what is not to be expected. Just so you know, my daughter can still take care of herself if need be. Her wrestling experiences have made her a stronger woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The question is not, if a Girl can Wrestle? We all know of, or have heard stories where girls have become accomplished Wrestlers. I think the real question is, should Girls be allowed to Wrestle against Boys, or Boys against Girls? I think it is a no win situation for the Boy who has to Wrestle against a Girl. Again, I think there can and should be Girls Wrestling, Just not against Boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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