Y2CJ41

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1 hour ago, Observing said:

Reading through, sounds like top level gains are achieved outside of the high school season. Maybe there should be a separate class for the financially disadvantaged. Clubs and travel tournaments must cost quite a bit. 

You make a great point. I'd love to hear from parents and see what they spent on events, training, gear, etc over the years. I asked one parent of a top wrestler what do you think you've spent on training, events, etc and he laughed, then said "I don't even want to think about THAT!" 

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The first annual IndianaMat MessageBoard Hall of Fame class has been announced. Since this Hall of Fame is run by crooked media members we modified the rules right before the announcement. We are inducting three people posthumously and four via the vote-in process. Don’t be surprised if we change the rules again next year. Before we get into the inductees here are some of the general guidelines we have for this honor.

1. No admins or staff
2. Can only go in under ONE name

3. Been an active member for 5 years

4. Innovative and fun

5. All in fun

We start the inductees with three people who left an impact on the board and have unfortunately passed away. The first one is grecoref aka Tom Clark. He came to Indiana from his native Ohio and became a full blown Hoosier. On the mat he was a very accomplished referee making his way to the state finals and also to a little tournament called the Olympics. On the board he was known to provide valuable information, sarcasm, wit, and humor. He was a friend to all and a great personality to have on the board.

Our second inductee is The Ancient Elder aka Dick Neal. Mr. Neal was likely the greatest Indiana wrestling historian ever. In the days of paper brackets and snail mail, he acquired everything he could possibly get his hands on to incorporate into his Indiana wrestling book. On the board he always answered the historical questions and reminded us of the best wrestlers and matches of the years gone by.

The last one to be inducted posthumously is Perseverance aka Eric Allred. Allred has a great story of overcoming adversity and making his life right. He was a huge fan of his son Silas and very knowledgeable about the sport and the kids Silas wrestled with. His passion for the sport and supporting others is very much missed.

The currently active members are characters to say the least and have had a fun and important impact on our lively messageboard. It is only fitting that MattyB and Team Garcia are inducted at the same time. Both came on the board at the same time to wreak havoc and promote #TheCounty and mainly the “young guns” of Avon. They have continued to this day due to having sons still involved in wrestling or in the case of Garcia, just loving to stir the pot.

The steel factory in da region kept RegionRat1 off the board for a few years, but he made a comeback this season. While he has stayed relatively anonymous he always loves to promote da region in his very unique regioneese. Most outside of da region likely believe the way he types is how they speak there, and they aren’t wrong. 

Last, but not least is the lightning rod they call General Heavy Handz. Of the current inductees he leads the league in most “vacations” from IndianaMat. Luckily for him, Mike talks Joe into letting him come back EVERY SINGLE TIME! He is never shy about promoting the SAC and his beloved Snider Panthers.

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1 hour ago, graham said:

With all I said, I would prefer single-class AND wrestle-backs if it could be made to work.  So maybe “perfect” wasn’t the right word to use.  

Why make our wrestling softer and have wrestle-backs? Should we give kids a second chance after they lose? Life's tough, when I lose $25k on poor investments, I don't get a redo and get that money back.

1 hour ago, BrodyHardcastle said:

Peru regional 4 life. 

So hardcore you forgot it was the Maconaquah regional for a couple years.

Mike and Joe are joined by Nicky Dubs and we go over the Hall of Fame and some grade rankings.

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1 hour ago, piscis1956 said:

Perseverance?  I didn’t see that name nominated.  So I assume that name was included by special acclaim by IndianaMat management, especially since I am seeing 6 names instead of just 5.

As stated previously this hall of fame is ran by crooked media folks who don't care. All rules are as valuable as the napkin they were written on.

Congratulations to this year's inductees

2 hours ago, THECountyFan said:

Common denominator CG, CP, BB club/ feeders/ MS programs are all at the top as well. why not work from the bottom up. Very hard but proven success. 

Do you realize the number of kids that didn't wrestle in those program's middle schools or only did for one year? 

2 minutes ago, THECountyFan said:

Or smaller enrollment private schools reel in the athletes that may have a lock from CP, BB, CG and them still wrestle the small school kids. Bottom line if you want to be a better wrestler you wrestle as many matches as you can in the off season and the best prevail. 

Why have so many kids that would have attended a smaller school ended up at Crown Point, Brownsburg, or Center Grove recently? If practice partners, schedule, coaching, and other factors didn't matter they should have stayed at their small schools and been stars.

4 minutes ago, MatTime said:

Then the need for class/division wrestling becomes less substantiated in this case. Why create a system that rewards part time individual sport participants? Our state system rewards the consistent wrestler who is dedicated to the sport. I imagine that only a few of the top wrestlers at each weight are competing in other sports. 

 

I don't think "class wrestling is needed to help multisport athletes get a chance at winning a title" is the argument that wins the day here. 

So are you saying that a small school kid won't have to work hard for success? 

What is the purpose of high school based athletics in your mind?

31 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

If the high school has a wrestling culture then there are a ton of advantages. Take Bellmont, Adams Central, Garrett, and Prairie Heights for instance.

 

What about 
Frankton
Rushville Consolidated
West Lafayette
Griffith
River Forest
Beech Grove
Gibson Southern
Tri-West Hendricks
Boonville
Danville Community
Glenn
Indian Creek
South Dearborn
Corydon Central
Jimtown
Silver Creek
Western Boone
Lawrenceburg
Sullivan
Mishawaka Marian
Speedway
Fairfield
Princeton Community
South Bend St. Joseph
Culver Academies
Woodlan
Lakeland
Twin Lakes
North Montgomery
Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory
Illiana Christian
Knox
Hammond Bishop Noll
North Harrison
Fort Wayne Bishop Luers
Frankfort
Mississinewa
Eastbrook
Fort Wayne Concordia Lutheran
Greensburg
Heritage
Scottsburg
Guerin Catholic
Connersville
Northwestern
West Vigo
Evansville Bosse
Winchester Community
West Central
Cass
Tri-Central
Wes-Del
Wheeler
Lake Station Edison
Cloverdale
North Posey
Northeastern
South Vermillion
Triton Central
Madison Grant
North Vermillion
LaVille
Northfield
Greencastle
Salem
Manchester
Parke Heritage
Tri
Tri-County
Hagerstown
Monroe Central
Union City
Fountain Central
North White
Boone Grove
Brown County
South Spencer
Triton
Clinton Prairie
Forest Park
Sheridan
Southern Wells
Churubusco
Eastern (Greentown)
Hebron
Frontier
Clinton Central
Providence Cristo Rey
Caston
Pioneer
Bremen
Whitko
Fremont
Providence
Elwood Community
Pike Central
Tecumseh
Wabash
Indiana School for the Deaf
Purdue Polytechnic - Broad Ripple
Daleville
Riverton Parke
North Newton
Indianapolis Scecina Memorial
North Judson-San Pierre
Paoli
Southwood
Cambridge City Lincoln
Carroll (Flora)
Eastern (Pekin)
Whiting
Covington
Clarksville
Taylor
What advantages do these places have? Naming 4 schools out of 200 is great, but they are the exceptions, not the norm.

4 minutes ago, Galagore said:

 

In your defense, the lack of how obvious that is is also kinda the point. Your confusion is what he seeks, though he does not seek to confuse you personally.

Telling all of my secrets... geesh!

16 minutes ago, AndyStJ said:

We are always going to disagree here.

You may see the lack of wrestlebacks as exciting but I see Henderson vs Haines in the ticket round, with only one of them going, as an abomination. Both wrestlers have put in the work and are the bad draws, but blind luck of the draw combined with the lack of wrestlebacks means that the question of the top 4 semistate wrestlers on the day is not even considered. And it easily could be.

Add a round of wrestlebacks to semistate and qualifying gets harder. You have to win 3 matches instead of 2 to qualify, and the third will always be against someone out of your pod who has already won 2 matches. Add wrestlebacks to the State Finals and you need to win 2 matches to place instead of 1. That is way more exciting to me. If you really want exciting, watch the blood round at Fargo or Super32 or NCAAs.

Wrestlebacks would make Indiana HS wrestling better.
 

If you put in time in the off-season and work hard then you shouldn't need wrestle-backs. Do we really want to find out who the best loser is? Win or go home, life isn't fair, winners win, don't lose.

33 minutes ago, base said:

Always helps to see examples - is there an easy way to sort this year's end-of-year state + semistate rankings into the classes and see some of the names each class would have had as the favorites going into the postseason tournament?

 

This would have been the finals if we had a split with IHSWCA 1A/2A and 3A/4A

106
2A
1st Place - Peyton Schoettle of Roncalli
2nd Place - Mason Jones of Lake Central
1A
3rd Place - Royce Malone of Monrovia
4th Place - Jensen Boyd of Delta

113
2A
1st Place - Revin Dickman of Brownsburg
2nd Place - Nathan Rioux of Avon
1A
3rd Place - Ayden Bollinger of Delta
6th Place - Bradyn Volz of Eastern Hancock

120
2A
1st Place - Charlie LaRocca of Center Grove
2nd Place - Ty Henderson of Evansville Mater Dei
1A
4th Place - Isaac Ash of Monrovia
Tanner Tishner- Western

126
2A
1st Place - Luke Rioux of Avon
2nd Place - Isaiah Schaefer of Evansville Mater Dei
1A
7th Place - Bradin Daniels of Union City
8th Place - Cody Rowles of Jay County

132
2A
1st Place - Jake Hockaday of Brownsburg
2nd Place - Hayden DeMarco of Chesterton
1A
3rd Place - Tylin Thrine of New Castle
4th Place - Jackson Bradley of Cowan

138
2A
1st Place - Kyrel Leavell of Warren Central
2nd Place - Clinton Shepherd of Crown Point
1A
4th Place - Tony Wood of Jay County
5th Place - Gavyn Whitehead of New Castle

144
2A
1st Place - Easton Doster of New Haven
2nd Place - Zar Walker of Mishawaka High School
1A
4th Place - Branson Weaver of Owen Valley
5th Place - Jeffrey Huyvaert of New Prairie

150
2A
1st Place - Wyatt Krejsa of Center Grove
2nd Place - Hunter May of Floyd Central
1A
Carson Fettig- Hamilton Heights
Alex Smith- Heritage Hills

157
2A
2nd Place - Adrian Pellot of Merrillville
3rd Place - Anthony Cashman of Warren Central

1A
1st Place - Mitchell Betz of Western
6th Place - Silas Foster of Purdue Polytechnic

165
2A
1st Place - Waylon Cressell of Warren Central
4th Place - Anthony Rinehart of Crown Point

1A
2nd Place - Duke Myers of Bellmont (IN)
3rd Place - Brant Beck of Rochester

175
2A
2nd Place - Bray Emerine of Floyd Central
3rd Place - Aidan Costello of Hobart

1A
1st Place - Chase Leech of Garrett High School
4th Place - Ethan Farnell of Maconaquah

190
2A
2nd Place - Gunner Henry of Brownsburg
5th Place - Kaden McConnell of Center Grove

1A
1st Place - Noah Weaver of Rossville
3rd Place - Noah Terry of Tell City

215
2A
1st Place - Will Clark of Crown Point
2nd Place - Brandon Johnson of Lawrence North
1A
5th Place - Keagan Martin of Bellmont (IN)
7th Place - Wyatt Woodall of Southmont

285
2A
1st Place - Nate Johnson of Center Grove
2nd Place - Hosia Smith of Indianapolis Cathedral
1A
5th Place - Brady Beck of Rochester
6th Place - Juan Cruz of Bluffton
 

3 minutes ago, MatTime said:

You are advocating on behalf of your school's athletic department, not for your individual athlete. We can not blame the athletes and their family for making a different choice. I think you would be hard pressed to find any of our 14 champions saying they didn't have to make a sacrifice to earn their title. 

 

This seems like the classic "have your cake and eat it too" situation. You want to win an individual state title but you also want to participate in other sports. You do not want to have to choose between focusing on being good at a single individual sport or playing other team sports. So instead of class/divisional wrestling, perhaps the policy should be all individual athlete's need to participate in at least one other sport in order to compete at the state series. Would that alleviate the decision making for the wrestler at a small school? Would that bring the parity that is being asked for?

 

It is a choice. 

Do you feel that kids in lower classes in other states do not work hard or make sacrifices in order to achieve success?

33 minutes ago, MatTime said:

I get what you are saying. However, this does not take into consideration the trade-off it takes to get better. Those that are wrestling year round are giving up something.

 

Seems like your argument is that there should be class/division wrestling so that smaller school athletes do not have to make a choice between wrestling or the other sports. If an athlete wants to focus on one sport, they will sacrifice the same way the wrestlers at bigger schools do. 

The difference is at a bigger school if a kid wants to be varsity there is a decent chance he has to give up other sports to achieve that. At a small school you can be varsity much easier and don't have to give up other sports to keep your spot. This is one of those areas where the separation starts to occur, especially at weights 150lbs and below.

15 hours ago, AndyStJ said:

Wrestle backs you say? What an interesting idea. 

 

Please tell me, have any other states implemented these "wrestle backs" , or would Indiana be the first?

Just work harder, if you put in the time during the off-season you are the bad draw and don't have to worry about losing.

The ticket round is a part of our culture and the most exciting round. Semi-state would be boring with wrestle-backs.

Life isn't fair, get over it.

15 minutes ago, Coach Beezy said:

The thing that separates us from other states is NOT having class wrestling. While this maybe something that is frowned upon from others, it's what makes us (Indiana) unique! I haven't heard of other states that have class wrestling compete in a true "tournament of champions," 

Many states have tried some sort of champions tournament and they all have failed. It would be the same thing as us running state back two weeks later and asking everyone to "prove it" with their title runs. I would guess there are around 100 wrestlers who would love a redo on their state finals and to improve their placement or get revenge for a loss they took.

If a kid wants to prove he's the best in a classed state he will prove it at events during the season such as Al Smith, Mooresville, and others, prove it at ISWA events, or go out and place high at national events. 

Why aren't we having Rochester, Delta, and Floyd Central wrestle Crown Point after team state? Do we want to crown them champions, but then the next week say... "well you aren't really the champion?" How asinine is that?

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1 minute ago, TeamGarcia said:

As I stated before I’ll give up my votes to allow both these legends of the board to get in . I’ll wait till next year to get in . I’ll feel bad, if either one is left out this year. Respect is what they earn .

Garcia has a heart? I'm checking the IP address to make sure he wasn't hacked.

Calhoun and Kervin into the semi-finals and guaranteed podium spots

54 minutes ago, Kyle Ayersman said:

Bacon is never served. Just some nice Brownsburg water!

I want Jake and Revin to dress up like this and chase you through the school