Justin Ratliff Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 At first glance it looks like our numbers at Folkstyle State in Peewee-Novice have been down the last couple years. Why do you think this is? It has seemed like tournament numbers have been down at the local level also for the most part. Kentucky has had more youth from Peewee-Novice than Indiana in the past two years. What is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 ISWA Kids Folkstyle State Peewee-Novice 2015 818 wrestlers 2014 853 wrestlers 2013 894 wrestlers Kentucky Kids Folkstyle State had 942 kids Peewee-Novice this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig40 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sports these days is very sports specific and it most likely is hurting the numbers. Just wait till Freestyle state when then numbers drop below half of what it was last year. My boy won't even be able to go for the triple crown. Damn shame TeamGarcia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGarcia Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sports these days is very sports specific and it most likely is hurting the numbers. Just wait till Freestyle state when then numbers drop below half of what it was last year. My boy won't even be able to go for the triple crown. Damn shame Same here. #'s are going to hit them hard , what they are supposedly going to help . To much National Events going on to stay here . Wrestle 2 local events . Sig40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) The sad part of all of it is, ISWA wants you to think they want to grow and make the sport better. Nationals for folkstyle are at the beginning of April, which means this gives 4 weekends/weeks focused on freestyle/greco. If the focus is to improve these areas of wrestling, which ISWA says they are trying to do, why are we only dedicating 1/12th of the year to it? That is unless you are now hand picked to compete nationally now! It is truly a loss to the sport (freestyle/greco). ISWA needs to get out of the folkstyle business and focus on freestyle/greco if this is what they want to build. Just my opinion! Edited March 10, 2015 by warsawwrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) If the focus is to improve these areas of wrestling, which ISWA says they are trying to do, why are we only dedicating 1/12th of the year to it? Not to get too side tracked on the topic since its based on folkstyle numbers, but some US states host their freestyle/greco state finals a few weeks later in the year compared to when Indiana hosts their event. This obviously give their competators a few additional weeks of learn the styles and participate in local events. The old reason for the date of the ISWA freestyle/greco state finals was always that it was the only date we could guarantee the state fair grounds. But that is obviously not an issue now that we host the even in HS fieldhouses. From what I have heard some of the new reasoning for the current date is a cross between ensuring we have our national teams set early enough, as well as, making sure we do not lose potential competitors to baseball, soccer, and other summer sports. I'm not sure how much attendance would be affected by the latter reason, but for the former reason if other states are still able to get their national team set using a later date I would say we could too. Two extra weeks of training and competition could also help encourage a few more athletes to attend the freestyle/greco state events. Edited March 10, 2015 by MattM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The sad part of all of it is, ISWA wants you to think they want to grow and make the sport better. Nationals for folkstyle are at the beginning of April, which means this gives 4 weekends/weeks focused on freestyle/greco. If the focus is to improve these areas of wrestling, which ISWA says they are trying to do, why are we only dedicating 1/12th of the year to it? That is unless you are now hand picked to compete nationally now! It is truly a loss to the sport (freestyle/greco). ISWA needs to get out of the folkstyle business and focus on freestyle/greco if this is what they want to build. Just my opinion! I agree if the goal is to increase numbers Folkstyle needs to be removed from USA Wrestling. The downside to that is that the ISWA would lose the revenue from folkstyle state ($70,000ish before paying officials, the use of the location, etc). That's a big hit (about $30,000 more than they make in FS/GR combined). That would make Freestyle/Greco the sole styles in the off-season for any instate stuff through the ISWA (Much like 10-15 years ago). At that point people will have to attend to wrestle which is where you get the middle of the road kids as the big names will probably just continue to hit major national events. Build your base and go from there. But it would be a monstrous risk because if it doesn't pan out that's a lot of money missing. randalllynch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I agree if the goal is to increase numbers Folkstyle needs to be removed from USA Wrestling. The downside to that is that the ISWA would lose the revenue from folkstyle state ($70,000ish before paying officials, the use of the location, etc). That's a big hit (about $30,000 more than they make in FS/GR combined). That would make Freestyle/Greco the sole styles in the off-season for any instate stuff through the ISWA (Much like 10-15 years ago). At that point people will have to attend to wrestle which is where you get the middle of the road kids as the big names will probably just continue to hit major national events. Build your base and go from there. But it would be a monstrous risk because if it doesn't pan out that's a lot of money missing. They could still do a folkstyle state for elementary kids. that way it isn't a total miss and could focus their efforts toward elementary kids during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 But it would be a monstrous risk because if it doesn't pan out that's a lot of money missing. It could also kill local level wrestling in this state... so it is a huge risk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So then you alienate older kids.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So then you alienate older kids.... I don't think you alienate them. There is a middle school state and of course high school state. So why can't ISWA do a elementary state tournament. I haven't looked at the numbers, but would say other than middle school kids, this would be the biggest population at ISWA state anyways from my past experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCharger Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I know that alot of our younger kids that have been grinding on Folkstyle tram and individual since beginning of November are ready for a change with Freestyle and Greco. I coach and my son wrestles.. He was kinda hesitate to wrestle Folkstyle state, cause he was burnt. He did compete and was happy he didn't miss it.. but crazy excited for next month or 2.. Folkstyle is great.. it's wrestling what isn't great about it? But change is good especially with the youth. grecoref 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Highjackers! There are a couple convos about Freestyle/Greco elsewhere. I do not think that the ISWA should stop doing Folkstyle. This was our 2nd year going to the state tournament and we have had great experiences. I was just wondering what we can all do at our respective levels of involvement in the wreatling community to grow this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Highjackers! There are a couple convos about Freestyle/Greco elsewhere. I do not think that the ISWA should stop doing Folkstyle. This was our 2nd year going to the state tournament and we have had great experiences. I was just wondering what we can all do at our respective levels of involvement in the wreatling community to grow this? I don't think our information is that far off topic. Mostly when we are bringing it back to ISWA should run an elementary state (youth state), because they have probably some of the larger numbers. Making an individual elementary state will make the youth groups feel like they have their own thing. Plus this could be done some where around High School or Middle school state. This way your kids are not getting burned out on folkstyle and ISWA could increase freestyle/greco time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 They have no reason to get rid of any of their folkstyle state events. Why on Earth would you get rid of an event that brings in 2000 entries and is the biggest money maker for the organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 They have no reason to get rid of any of their folkstyle state events. Why on Earth would you get rid of an event that brings in 2000 entries and is the biggest money maker for the organization? Most times focusing on one thing instead of more than one can improve things. If the goal is to improve freestyle/greco than yes I think you take the risk. If they were to still do an elementary they would be losing 1200 kids of that 2000 you speak of. The other part of this is that now that we have moved to a different selection process for folkstyle nationals, will the numbers be down this year at folkstyle state? That number might not even be what you are estimating because of this change. As of right now they are at under 800 pre-registered for this weekend plus 800 from last weekend is 1600. If this stands we are already down 400 wrestlers from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Most times focusing on one thing instead of more than one can improve things. If the goal is to improve freestyle/greco than yes I think you take the risk. If they were to still do an elementary they would be losing 1200 kids of that 2000 you speak of. The other part of this is that now that we have moved to a different selection process for folkstyle nationals, will the numbers be down this year at folkstyle state? That number might not even be what you are estimating because of this change. As of right now they are at under 800 pre-registered for this weekend plus 800 from last weekend is 1600. If this stands we are already down 400 wrestlers from last year. Improving freestyle and Greco doesn't have to come at the expense of cutting out folkstyle. There is no "new" selection process for folkstyle nationals. If you compete at folkstyle state or get a waiver you can wrestle. This has been the policy for quite a few years. You have no clue how many people sign up the last day do you? Numbers at the IHPO always double the last two or three days. They will hit 1000 this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Improving freestyle and Greco doesn't have to come at the expense of cutting out folkstyle. There is no "new" selection process for folkstyle nationals. If you compete at folkstyle state or get a waiver you can wrestle. This has been the policy for quite a few years. You have no clue how many people sign up the last day do you? Numbers at the IHPO always double the last two or three days. They will hit 1000 this weekend. Some reason we always seem to have a different view, but I think we both want the same results for the most part. I think the lack of freestyle/greco has hurt Indiana wrestling. When I grew up there was a specific direction. Folkstyle during high school and Freestyle after till mid summer. Which gave about 4 months to both. Now folkstyle is mainly year round and freestyle/greco is 6 weeks at best. When you have ISWA fighting for pages that our kids don't even know what a "gut wrench or counter" is, and this is why they want to make 2 tournaments a qualifier to state; it tells me that they are trying to put more of a focus on freestyle/greco. I must have been mistaken on the selection process, maybe it was for something else that it was involving. I thought it was through a selection process now and not placement on ISWA state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGarcia Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I don't think our information is that far off topic. Mostly when we are bringing it back to ISWA should run an elementary state (youth state), because they have probably some of the larger numbers. Making an individual elementary state will make the youth groups feel like they have their own thing. Plus this could be done some where around High School or Middle school state. This way your kids are not getting burned out on folkstyle and ISWA could increase freestyle/greco time. ^ you said kids get burned out on Folkstyle ... Lol. For some there no such thing as "burned out" they wrestle Folkstyle, it's non stop 24/7/365 of getting better & better. Going out of State , all year. Freestyle & Greco is for part time for the youth in Indiana 1 month a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 ^ you said kids get burned out on Folkstyle ... Lol. For some there no such thing as "burned out" they wrestle Folkstyle, it's non stop 24/7/365 of getting better & better. Going out of State , all year. Freestyle & Greco is for part time for the youth in Indiana 1 month a year. Hardcharger said something about his kid being burnt. I don't believe in burn out, but that is a personal view. I do believe in breaks, but now we are getting way off topic. There are a lot of valuable things to learn from freestyle/greco that can improve folkstyle. Plus after college where are they going to wrestle folkstyle at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Some reason we always seem to have a different view, but I think we both want the same results for the most part. I think the lack of freestyle/greco has hurt Indiana wrestling. When I grew up there was a specific direction. Folkstyle during high school and Freestyle after till mid summer. Which gave about 4 months to both. Now folkstyle is mainly year round and freestyle/greco is 6 weeks at best. When you have ISWA fighting for pages that our kids don't even know what a "gut wrench or counter" is, and this is why they want to make 2 tournaments a qualifier to state; it tells me that they are trying to put more of a focus on freestyle/greco. I must have been mistaken on the selection process, maybe it was for something else that it was involving. I thought it was through a selection process now and not placement on ISWA state. Things have changed since your days of walking uphill both ways to school. Back then the IHSAA had some more stringent rules on off-season coaching and participation specifically folkstyle. That is why we had very little folkstyle events. If you wanted to wrestle folkstyle you had to go to Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGarcia Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It's the parents that get burned out not the kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Things have changed since your days of walking uphill both ways to school. Back then the IHSAA had some more stringent rules on off-season coaching and participation specifically folkstyle. That is why we had very little folkstyle events. If you wanted to wrestle folkstyle you had to go to Ohio. That kind of feels like a jab, but I don't have problem with change. I have problem with lack of direction/focus. Which usually some programs have, but it doesn't seem as a whole (indiana) there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Over 1163 registered...what was this about not even hitting 800? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 There were 1235 in 2014 and 1330 in 2013. Seems like a downward trend starting. I'm really going to push this harder as a club coach next year. We are a newer club so parents are still hesitant to send their kids. Hopefully that will change soon. What are some things we can do as a community to bring the involvement level up in our sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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