maligned Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Second level of semi-state is when the wheat really is separated from the chaff because path difficulty influences very little in your ability to advance further. Here are stats for 2nd round of semi-state and state advancement by class: [table] Advancement 3A 2A 1A Underclassmen to 2nd Rd. Semi-State 131 68 16 Underclassmen to State 64 30 4 Seniors to 2nd Rd. Semi-State 140 67 26 Seniors to State 88 30 8 Total to 2nd Rd. Semi-State 271 (60%) 135 (30%) 42 (9%) Total to State 152 (68%) 60 (27%) 12 (5%) [/table] Total sectional participants per class (not including a handful of participants with less than 10 matches wrestled and not placing top 6 at sectional): 3A: 1301 (21% advancement rate to 2nd round of semi-state) 104 schools; 12.5 per lineup 2A: 1160 (12% to 2nd round of semi-state) 104 schools; 11.2 per lineup 1A: 945 (4% to 2nd round of semi-state) 105 schools; 9.0 per lineup (late addition of Madison Shawe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 One interpretation of these statistics is that a classed individual state finals, assuming 16-man brackets for all classes, would yield a state finals for 3A in which virtually all participants would be at least the quality level of the second round of semi-state. A little more than half of a 2A state finals and less than 20% of a 1A state finals would be of the quality level of the second round of semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 so in other words, what was once a first round loser at the regional level may now be a state qualifier in the single A. seems like a pretty good reason to not have classes for the individual tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 so in other words, what was once a first round loser at the regional level may now be a state qualifier in the single A. seems like a pretty good reason to not have classes for the individual tournament. There would definitely be kids from 1A schools in difficult sectionals that don't make it to regional, but would be state finalists in 16-man classed brackets. That in itself isn't necessarily an indictment of the idea. It's the same situation across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There would definitely be kids from 1A schools in difficult sectionals that don't make it to regional, but would be state finalists in 16-man classed brackets. That in itself isn't necessarily an indictment of the idea. It's the same situation across the country. the majority of states that do have classes have a much higher population and even more so, a much higher wrestling population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 the majority of states that do have classes have a much higher population and even more so, a much higher wrestling population Actually that is false, a majority of the states with smaller population has class wrestling. http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html Also, three classes is too many, two is just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 so in other words, what was once a first round loser at the regional level may now be a state qualifier in the single A. seems like a pretty good reason to not have classes for the individual tournament. +1 All Regional qualifiers should be able to call themselves State Qualifiers. Wait a minute, no they shouldn't. Do your best and you're a winner in my book even if that means you lost in Sectional. Heck, anyone who has the courage to go out for wrestling and step on the mat is a winner in my book. No need to ruin a great thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Actually that is false, a majority of the states with smaller population has class wrestling. http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html Also, three classes is too many, two is just right. how many of the states that have only two classes separate private from public as oppose to have actual 2 open classes and thanks for posting that because i was digging for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 how many of the states that have only two classes separate private from public as oppose to have actual 2 open classes and thanks for posting that because i was digging for it I do not believe any of the states with two classes separate public and private. Usually it is the one with greater than two classes that do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 i am glad you posted that everyone should get a good look at that to let everyone realize how big of an achievement it is to qualify for state finals in Indiana. as you go down that list take a good look at how many states have a state tournament that is only comparable to our sectional or regional because of class. there are some classes that have less than 30 schools in a class kinda pathetic to think that you are a state champion that is only better than 29 other guys. winning a state title in indiana means something special adding classes waters that down seems like the grand scheme of classing an individual sport would be to hand out more medals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 +1 All Regional qualifiers should be able to call themselves State Qualifiers. Wait a minute, no they shouldn't. Do your best and you're a winner in my book even if that means you lost in Sectional. Heck, anyone who has the courage to go out for wrestling and step on the mat is a winner in my book. No need to ruin a great thing. Couldn't agree more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 so in other words, what was once a first round loser at the regional level may now be a state qualifier in the single A. seems like a pretty good reason to not have classes for the individual tournament. You can look at stats in 2 ways. Having only 12 kids qualify for state from the 1A schools demonstrates thats there is huge mountain to climb for them to qualify for state. The odds are so stacked against them, that participation and motivation for the small schools suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachbum21 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A more accurate view of these numbers would be to put MD in 1A since they are actually a 1A school in size even though they choose to jump up and participate in the 3A Invitational. Not that it would tell anything diffferent just more accurate view when looking at numbers and school sizes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A more accurate view of these numbers would be to put MD in 1A since they are actually a 1A school in size even though they choose to jump up and participate in the 3A Invitational. Not that it would tell anything diffferent just more accurate view when looking at numbers and school sizes..... Mater Dei is a huge outlier, they are not a typical 1A by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 You can look at stats in 2 ways. Having only 12 kids qualify for state from the 1A schools demonstrates thats there is huge mountain to climb for them to qualify for state. The odds are so stacked against them, that participation and motivation for the small schools suffer. you are forgetting the real numbers game at play though if u have a school with 1000 kids and you get 5 percent to wrestle you have 50 kids which increases your chances for state qualifiers statistically over a school that has 200 kids with 5 percent only yielding 10 wrestlers and then what follows that is the quality of the coaching may drop because its just not a huge focus in the area turning some of them into state qualifiers because you increase the number of qualifiers wont change any of that and it also wont get any colleges to look at them which is the main goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Mater Dei is a huge outlier, they are not a typical 1A by any means. that is where the coaching and community focus has much to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 you are forgetting the real numbers game at play though if u have a school with 1000 kids and you get 5 percent to wrestle you have 50 kids which increases your chances for state qualifiers statistically over a school that has 200 kids with 5 percent only yielding 10 wrestlers and then what follows that is the quality of the coaching may drop because its just not a huge focus in the area turning some of them into state qualifiers because you increase the number of qualifiers wont change any of that and it also wont get any colleges to look at them which is the main goal So you are demonstrating the advantages a big school has and thus are a supporter of classing wrestling. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that is where the coaching and community focus has much to do with it Or having families that pay $4k to go there amongst other advantages. There isn't even another 1A school to come close to comparing them to. They are very atypical for a 1A school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Or having families that pay $4k to go there amongst other advantages. There isn't even another 1A school to come close to comparing them to. They are very atypical for a 1A school. Is $4K all it costs to go t Mater Dei, or is that balance after the state paid voucher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 maybe instead of classing wrestling to even out the sport and hand out undeserved medals lets make all the schools conform to evening out the number of kids in the schools and for Y2 a big school has a better chance of sending more to state because of numbers yes but that only supports a statistic you are forgetting the real numbers schools dont matter because its individual there are 308 wrestlers in each weight and 16 of them make it to state if you got rid of schools all together that would still hold true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I find it very interesting that Seniors out number the underclassmen combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Coaching at a 1a school i will tell u if there were 2 classes and we had a couple kids make it to state on a regular basis it would have a huge impact. The school would get behind the sport more because administrator put money into winning programs. Also you would have more kids coming out for the sport because the see the success of the friends and classmate, so the program would grow and that would help wrestling overall. I can also guess that you would get alot more kids wrestling in collage and getting scholarships. Not everyone has be a 3 time state champ and wrestle div. 1 to wrestle in collage. The more kids we get to come out for the sport and have success then wrestle in collage then come back to coach would onl help the sport. Sounds like a win win for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 you are forgetting the real numbers game at play though if u have a school with 1000 kids and you get 5 percent to wrestle you have 50 kids which increases your chances for state qualifiers statistically over a school that has 200 kids with 5 percent only yielding 10 wrestlers and then what follows that is the quality of the coaching may drop because its just not a huge focus in the area turning some of them into state qualifiers because you increase the number of qualifiers wont change any of that and it also wont get any colleges to look at them which is the main goal So the main goal is to get colleges to look at them? If you are going to make an argument, please don't end it with something so silly. If that is truly the main goal, then the failure rate is crazy high. I would wager that a large percentage of high school wrestlers do not want to wrestle in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Coaching at a 1a school i will tell u if there were 2 classes and we had a couple kids make it to state on a regular basis it would have a huge impact. The school would get behind the sport more because administrator put money into winning programs. Also you would have more kids coming out for the sport because the see the success of the friends and classmate, so the program would grow and that would help wrestling overall. I can also guess that you would get alot more kids wrestling in collage and getting scholarships. Not everyone has be a 3 time state champ and wrestle div. 1 to wrestle in collage. The more kids we get to come out for the sport and have success then wrestle in collage then come back to coach would onl help the sport. Sounds like a win win for the sport. Where is sportsfangms? His editing skills are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachbum21 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Mater Dei is a huge outlier, they are not a typical 1A by any means. I don't disagree with you on this but the fact remains they are a 1A school and their numbers should be reflected in the 1A catagory. Just my opinion. You could also say Yorktown is an outlier as well since I don't believe any 2A school has qualified the number of wrestler they did but you shouldn't remove them from the data for that.... just note it as so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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