tskin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think they should all wrestle for the seeds. That is the only fair way of doing it. Now that could be a show all the head coaches battling for their teams seeds in a 8 man bracket. Tonte has wrestled in a prison though so he might have a unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Top four are done. But the committee is still discussing the ideas sudgested here on the board to see how we will handle the remaining four teams. Once the committee decides and informs me of the decision then we will move forward with the bracket process. Danny and I will video the draw and post it for all to see. So some seeding is done without the committee being totally done with the process?? Seems like nothing is ever set in stone for this event. The decision on how many teams to seed should have been done and over with when the event was made, not finally deciding now but yet not totally decided as of right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think they should all wrestle for the seeds. That is the only fair way of doing it. lol, now I'm picturing Tonte and Hasseman in a singlet. Scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hasseman by fall, he is a Findlay grad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So some seeding is done without the committee being totally done with the process?? Seems like nothing is ever set in stone for this event. The decision on how many teams to seed should have been done and over with when the event was made, not finally deciding now but yet not totally decided as of right now. Littlevito yes can you believe it when ideas where mentioned by our coaches for a way to improve the State Finals seeding last month the seeding committee decided to discuss those ideas presented and see if they were something we thought might improve the event. Have no fear we will have a format that the committee has voted on for fillng out the rest of the bracket. As of now we are still blind drawing the remainin four teams in just like last year unless the majority of the seeding committee decides to move forward with a change using ideas posted on this board and I will post the decision here tomorrow for you to find some fault in. Like has been stated before our goal is to make this the best tourney it can be. If you have any ideas please email me and share. tysongskinner@gmail.com The IHSWCA is open to any and all ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So basically the seeds are going to be done based off coaches voting on teams during the first 3 weeks of the season(through December 7th). Thus we are losing at least two good weeks of results, if not three weeks. Thus Franklin's win over Cathedral is not considered in the rankings even though it happened four weeks prior to the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hasseman by fall, he is a Findlay grad! that was the very reason I'm taking Tonte. Lol as long as he doesn't get bear hugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Like I said earlier I believe if you run this meet 3 times with different pairings each time you may have 3 different winners. These top teams are all so close it should be a great day of wrestling. If this meet was a super six I don't think any team goes undefeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So basically the seeds are going to be done based off coaches voting on teams during the first 3 weeks of the season(through December 7th). Thus we are losing at least two good weeks of results, if not three weeks. Thus Franklin's win over Cathedral is not considered in the rankings even though it happened four weeks prior to the event. Are you saying before that match cathedral should of been a top 4 seed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Are you saying before that match cathedral should of been a top 4 seed? According to the rankings they are the 4th seed 1 Perry Meridian (10) 105 2t Evans. Mater Dei 81 2t Penn 81 4 Indpls. Cathedral (1) 75 5 Franklin 64 6 Warren Central 62 7 Merrillville 54 8 Crown Point 26 9 New Palestine 18 10 East Noble 13 New rankings aren't being released for another week, so these are the ones to go off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 According to the rankings they are the 4th seed 1 Perry Meridian (10) 105 2t Evans. Mater Dei 81 2t Penn 81 4 Indpls. Cathedral (1) 75 5 Franklin 64 6 Warren Central 62 7 Merrillville 54 8 Crown Point 26 9 New Palestine 18 10 East Noble 13 New rankings aren't being released for another week, so these are the ones to go off of. Ok wanted to make sure what you were saying..... Below is our current seeding criteria if we stick with just seeding 4 and you can see we have a rule if a head to head occures after a set of rankings come out. ..................................................................................... IHSWCA State Duals Championship Seeding Criteria We will seed the top four teams out of each of the eight teams selected per class. The remaining 4 teams will be then blind drawn into the eight man bracket. The unseeded teams will be assigned a number 1-4 based on the alphabetical order of their school names. • First # drawn will be placed on line 3 facing the #4 seed. • Second # drawn will be placed on line 6 facing the #3 seed. • Third # drawn will be placed on line 7 facing the #2 seed. • Fourth # drawn will be placed on line 2 facing #1 seed. The top four teams shall be seeded based on the latest classed team rankings Any head to head competition occurring during the week preceding the State Tournament draw which is not reflected in the rankings will be taken into consideration. If a tie happens in the class rankings then the tie breaker for those teams involved will be the initial selection point criteria with the higher seed be awarded to the team with the higher point value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 This is exactly why this event needs a home page. So all the info we fans would like to know could be readily and easily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 This is exactly why this event needs a home page. So all the info we fans would like to know could be readily and easily available. I agree that is something we have been talking about. We have discused putting a section on our IHSWCA website. Whe I put the cll out to any coach in our rankns to help romote it thought we could get someone to head that up while I tackle other tasks but if not in the offseason I will get with everyone and jake nd see what we can get done on this. Thanks forthe input Loki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ok wanted to make sure what you were saying..... Below is our current seeding criteria if we stick with just seeding 4 and you can see we have a rule if a head to head occures after a set of rankings come out. ..................................................................................... IHSWCA State Duals Championship Seeding Criteria We will seed the top four teams out of each of the eight teams selected per class. The remaining 4 teams will be then blind drawn into the eight man bracket. The unseeded teams will be assigned a number 1-4 based on the alphabetical order of their school names. • First # drawn will be placed on line 3 facing the #4 seed. • Second # drawn will be placed on line 6 facing the #3 seed. • Third # drawn will be placed on line 7 facing the #2 seed. • Fourth # drawn will be placed on line 2 facing #1 seed. The top four teams shall be seeded based on the latest classed team rankings Any head to head competition occurring during the week preceding the State Tournament draw which is not reflected in the rankings will be taken into consideration. If a tie happens in the class rankings then the tie breaker for those teams involved will be the initial selection point criteria with the higher seed be awarded to the team with the higher point value. So you are using the rankings, but kinda not in case two teams meet up.....interesting. Are there any considerations for a team that is two weeks out of football season? Cathedral gave Franklin a nice run and was not even at full strength. It seems they are potentially being punished for seeking out top competition early in the season especially at the risk of not being at full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Oberlin vs. Caprino....in the alley behind the Shamrock....dusk.....the war to settle the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The shamrock closed down...it was a sad day in the loo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Cancel the wrestling and just give them all participation ribbons bc its horribly unfair for them to wreslte. Or let's do a best of 13 match series and travel the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestleMan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's crazy not to seed all 8. You are potentially denying a team ranked #5 the opportunity to defeat the team at #4 and place top 4. This year especially the team at #5 could "upset" the team at #4 instead of possibly facing #1 or #2 right off the bat and falling into the bottom 4. It may not effect the eventual champion but it does help make the placing of 1-8 more accurate. If we are only worried about crowning a champion why do we worry about seeding at all? Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any good reason not to seed all 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Hartman Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Y2 how would you seed the tournament? I mean what process would you like to see in place for the future of the Team Duals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Cancel the wrestling and just give them all participation ribbons bc its horribly unfair for them to wreslte. Or let's do a best of 13 match series and travel the state. just hope no one gets hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Y2 how would you seed the tournament? I mean what process would you like to see in place for the future of the Team Duals? If you are going to use rankings then try some that are fairly recent. By the time this event occurs the rankings you used are going on 4 weeks old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's crazy not to seed all 8. You are potentially denying a team ranked #5 the opportunity to defeat the team at #4 and place top 4. This year especially the team at #5 could "upset" the team at #4 instead of possibly facing #1 or #2 right off the bat and falling into the bottom 4. It may not effect the eventual champion but it does help make the placing of 1-8 more accurate. If we are only worried about crowning a champion why do we worry about seeding at all? Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any good reason not to seed all 8. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Well said this year the team ranked 5th could "upset" the 1,2,3 or 4 seed just the same. The more I go through the matchups with each team the more I believe any one of them could win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Although I'm not on the seeding committee, I've been involved in giving some input and ideas. It's tough to cover fully all the scenarios and possibilities behind why the seeding procedure has been left as simple as it is in a few back and forth messages on a public board. Basically, though, here are the reasons it's been left simple and straightforward across all 3 classes: 1. The committee wants the seeds and draw to be easily understood 2. They want the possibility of a public draw (at a meet, at least, or streamed online) 3. Special considerations for one class make things seem unfair in another. (For example, you might think there's a clear Top 5 in 3A, but there's not necessarily in the other classes. If you seed the top 6 or the top 8, I believe there's a very real possibility of having the second best team gone in the first round in one class because the rankings haven't evolved well yet.) 4. Relying on the rankings, with only a provision for head-to-head after the most recent rankings, brings accountability. 5. Leaving a random draw for the bottom 4 gives a "fair" opportunity for teams that are typically more difficult to rank early in the season not to be stuck automatically with a #1 or #2 opponent. (Again, a 7th or 8th or unrated team in 1A or 2A could be a top 3 team; it's tough to know right now. Even in 3A, no one really agrees on who among the top 5 is really #1, so two of them will have to face each other in the first round no matter what anyway.) I personally would like to see some geographic considerations for first-round match-ups, and possibly the idea of more seeding down the road; but because of these 5 listed items, I fully understand why the committee hasn't been convinced. (By the way, football considerations were mentioned. The committee did discuss this...if there are head-to-heads that happened less than 2 weeks after the completion of football for someone, I don't think they will consider them. ) With all of this said, they may decide at the last minute to add some details. It's their call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 How wasn't the Cathedral vs. Franklin match within two weeks of Cathedral's last football game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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