Cosgrove Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 because there are more wrestlers at the bigger schools there are still state champions from smaller school every year and some guys from smaller school do move to larger schools to get better practice partners or go practice with another team before and after season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 and trying to make everything more fair doesnt make the kids learn anything in life. Life is not fair wrestling is just like life what you put into it is what you get out of it gotta work for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Stat Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 That in a single class environment it is supposed to be equal, yet if you are a wrestler from a big school you are 3X more likely to be a state qualifier. Makes sense if you think about it. A kid at a large school with a weight class that is 3-4 deep will probably get a lot better at practice than a kid from a program that has one kid at 106, one at 138, and one at 220. Their only opportunity to wrestle someone is at a match. Unless their coach jumps on the mat with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Quote from: Y2CJ41 on Today at 09:54:59 AM That in a single class environment it is supposed to be equal, yet if you are a wrestler from a big school you are 3X more likely to be a state qualifier. Really so if you go to a big school you have a better chance to go to state in an individual sport? Well that's just not fair to the little schools. What are these big schools doing to these little schools to keep them from getting to state? What about the poor kids who can't even make varsity at the evil big schools but may be one of the top 10 wrestlers in that weight? Shouldn't they get a chance to go to state? Perhaps they can go to the little school state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 hahahah made me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 They work harder is what I have been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Indiana only has 300 some schools there is just no justifiable reason to class individual state. I would venture to guess the states with individual class state probably have two or three times as many schools where it just makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 isnt california one class atleast thats what i thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Really so if you go to a big school you have a better chance to go to state in an individual sport? Well that's just not fair to the little schools. What are these big schools doing to these little schools to keep them from getting to state? What about the poor kids who can't even make varsity at the evil big schools but may be one of the top 10 wrestlers in that weight? Shouldn't they get a chance to go to state? Perhaps they can go to the little school state tournament. Wow, so vindictive. I don't really and never have understood how having class wrestling is fair for the teams, but not fair for the individual. Wrestling is comprised literally of one on one matches that combine to make a team score. If it is fair for each individual to be held up against any wrestler (of the same weight) in the state, why is it not fair that a group of individuals be held up against any other group of individuals in the state? If you, in fact think team state duals should be de-classed, then disregard this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Kentucky does too, what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 the size of california and still one class and they produce good wrestlers every year good wrestlers who go division 1 and win ncaa titles and yeah i dont know anything about kentucky wrestling every kentucky kid ive wrestled at national tournaments was garbage imnot saying they all are but indiana in a wrestling standpoint higher up there. but honestly to make it fair for these smaller schools to compete they have to have the guys for one have to have a good or decent coach to get guys out have to have tough nosed kids or kids who travel all the time and have to have youth programs not just a high school program but then the classed comes in for a team classed tournament not individual one state champ to rule them alll haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyshred Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Really so if you go to a big school you have a better chance to go to state in an individual sport? Well that's just not fair to the little schools. What are these big schools doing to these little schools to keep them from getting to state? What about the poor kids who can't even make varsity at the evil big schools but may be one of the top 10 wrestlers in that weight? Shouldn't they get a chance to go to state? Perhaps they can go to the little school state tournament. Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. Again, then why do we class the team state duals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Stat Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. I tihnk that both situations have advantages AND disadvantages. As a previous poster noted, a kid might be one of the bext in the state, but stuck behind someone at his own school who IS the best in the state. Indyshred, you are right. Wrestling varsity and winning half of your matches is probably a lot tought than going 27-1 at the JV level (I have seen kids at our school who prove that out). At the end of the day, it is up to each kid. Coaches have some impact, but kids also have the opportunity to go above and beyond (wrestling camps, etc.) if they are driven to do so. Seems to me that wrestling is one of the harder sports to get by on natural ability alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. I agree with you, I was responding to a quote that said you are 3x more likely to make it to state if you go to a big school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Again, then why do we class the team state duals? Same reason we did in football I agree with you, I was responding to a quote that said you are 3x more likely to make it to state if you go to a big school. and we say that because statistically its been shown that is the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Indiana only has 300 some schools there is just no justifiable reason to class individual state. I would venture to guess the states with individual class state probably have two or three times as many schools where it just makes more sense. Actually you are wrong, if Indiana went to two classes it would still be in the top 7 for states in terms of the least percentage of wrestlers that qualify for the state finals. Actually right now Indiana is technically the hardest state in the nation to qualify for state in. http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html *Note this data is about 2 years old and I know Arizona is taking away about half their classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 the size of california and still one class and they produce good wrestlers every year good wrestlers who go division 1 and win ncaa titles and yeah i dont know anything about kentucky wrestling every kentucky kid ive wrestled at national tournaments was garbage imnot saying they all are but indiana in a wrestling standpoint higher up there. but honestly to make it fair for these smaller schools to compete they have to have the guys for one have to have a good or decent coach to get guys out have to have tough nosed kids or kids who travel all the time and have to have youth programs not just a high school program but then the classed comes in for a team classed tournament not individual one state champ to rule them alll haha Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Pennsylvania all have classed wrestling and produce a lot of really tough wrestlers. Single class wrestling doesn't make California any tougher, it might have to do with having a large population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. Because the statistics don't lie. Every year 3/4 of the state qualifiers are from schools in the upper half of enrollment. This data is from 2009, I haven't updated it lately http://indianamat.com/stuff/proof2009.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriors02 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why does everyone think that going to a BIG school increases your chances of going to state? My boys go/went to a big school. Just because a school is big doesnt mean they are 2-3 good guys in every weight class. My oldest during his senior year had no really good training partners. My youngest cant even find a spot in the lineup without going 2 weight classes up. Also alot of guys at smaller schools make a varsity lineup way earlier than those at a big school. Dont even try to tell me that wrestling varsity does not help you more than wrestling jv. I contend sometimes there are advantages to wrestling at a small school cause you get more varsity experience. I agree with you, I was responding to a quote that said you are 3x more likely to make it to state if you go to a big school. From my experience when 1st year wrestlers get thrown in varsity and get beat up all year they tend to not return for a second year. Getting 6 minutes in a jv match is far better for a new wrestler than spending 30 seconds in a varsity match before getting pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Again, then why do we class the team state duals? I dont think anyone argues that big schools dont have a higher number of good kids. The argument comes from whether or not going to a big school is what makes those kids better, or if because of statistically speaking the big school has more kids, so thus is likely to have more good indivduals. I feel that the big schools haveing more good kids is simply a product of there being a larger talent pool. So I dont think that they have an advatage gfrom going to a big school, and that on a singular one-on-one basis good small school kids, can compete just fine with good big school kids. The reason that a team is different is that it takes fourteen people to be competitive, not just a single indivdual. Thus the larger talent pool gives big schools an advantage in a team sense, when it doesnt exist for indivduals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I dont think anyone argues that big schools dont have a higher number of good kids. The argument comes from whether or not going to a big school is what makes those kids better, or if because of statistically speaking the big school has more kids, so thus is likely to have more good indivduals. I feel that the big schools haveing more good kids is simply a product of there being a larger talent pool. So I dont think that they have an advatage gfrom going to a big school, and that on a singular one-on-one basis good small school kids, can compete just fine with good big school kids. The reason that a team is different is that it takes fourteen people to be competitive, not just a single indivdual. Thus the larger talent pool gives big schools an advantage in a team sense, when it doesnt exist for indivduals. True or False Test Please answer true or false to these statements 1. Single class athletics means that everyone is equal and has an equal chance of winning 2. Having more students to choose from for an athletic team is an advantage Two questions, two answers please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I dont think anyone argues that big schools dont have a higher number of good kids. The argument comes from whether or not going to a big school is what makes those kids better, or if because of statistically speaking the big school has more kids, so thus is likely to have more good indivduals. I feel that the big schools haveing more good kids is simply a product of there being a larger talent pool. So I dont think that they have an advatage gfrom going to a big school, and that on a singular one-on-one basis good small school kids, can compete just fine with good big school kids. The reason that a team is different is that it takes fourteen people to be competitive, not just a single indivdual. Thus the larger talent pool gives big schools an advantage in a team sense, when it doesnt exist for indivduals. If going to a bigger school simply meant that there would be more good wrestlers in an given school, then the overall pool of good wrestlers wouldn't slant toward the larger schools. Fewer good wrestlers per school, but more schools (small schools) should balance out with more good wrestlers per school but fewer schools (big schools). In reality, it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If going to a bigger school simply meant that there would be more good wrestlers in an given school, then the overall pool of good wrestlers wouldn't slant toward the larger schools. Fewer good wrestlers per school, but more schools (small schools) should balance out with more good wrestlers per school but fewer schools (big schools). In reality, it does not. That confuses me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I just joined the conversation, but I would say false to both. I mean I get where you're going with your questions, but I don't think that you are going to get 100% accuracy with those questions. In theory, your thought process makes sense with more you get a better chance, but it does not always translate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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