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Class Warfare


Y2CJ41

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More kids would be showcased at our state tournament.  Therefore more coaches would come to our state finals. Think about going to Indiana state finals to watch 224 wrestlers or going to Ohio's for 672 wrestlers. Simple math there.

 

More kids would earn placements earlier in their career.  Therefore they would put more time into the sport in the offseason and thus hit more national tournaments. Both helping them improve.

The biggest difference in coaching is the following that big schools have to offer

1. Better pay(teaching and coaching)

2. More paid assistants

3. Better facilities

4. Better locations to academies and other off season training

 

All four make coaching at a bigger school more enticing for a coaching looking for a job.

 

I completely agree with the recruitment theory. Is Tom Ryan(ohio state), J. Robinson(minn), Tom Brands(Iowa), Cael Sanderson(Penn State), Barry Davis(Wisconsin), John Smith(Okla State), or any other power house wrestling schools in the stands at state? The answer is no.

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Thats a great question.  I was actaully thinking about that today, I generally feel that participating in three sports is the best way for an athlete to max out their potential, always competing, getting stronger, less burnout, ect. I think you could resonably argue that focusing on one sport is the better way to max a guy out.  I think that there are plenty of examples of top one sport athletes and top three sport atheletes, so I dont think you can make a conclusion one way or the other on that one.

So you are saying that playing baseball or running track in the spring is better than wrestling?

 

Interesting......

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And I am not knocking those coaches....this is for the sake of arguement about Classed vs Not Classed....Big school advantage vs little school...

 

Then you have to look at multiple factors for coaches having success at one school vs. another and why they made the move to a new school/community.  How long did they stay at the school to develop the program,  did they have school/community support in their efforts, where they in an area where knowledgeable asst. coaches were available to them, did they leave mostly due to a better coaching position with a few extra reason after or was it mostly for other reasons with coaching factors being the extra.  And then the similar questions would be asked about the new school.  Their would be several variable to take into account that are not specifically a big vs small school argument.

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Then you have to look at multiple factors for coaches having success at one school vs. another and why they made the move to a new school/community.  How long did they stay at the school to develop the program,  did they have school/community support in their efforts, where they in an area where knowledgeable asst. coaches were available to them, did they leave mostly due to a better coaching position with a few extra reason after or was it mostly for other reasons with coaching factors being the extra.  And then the similar questions would be asked about the new school.  Their would be several variable to take into account that are not specifically a big vs small school argument.

Exactly....multiple factors come in to play...and when multiple factors come in to play, who has the advantage of overcoming these factors?  A big school...or a little school?
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Thats a great question.  I was actaully thinking about that today, I generally feel that participating in three sports is the best way for an athlete to max out their potential, always competing, getting stronger, less burnout, ect. I think you could resonably argue that focusing on one sport is the better way to max a guy out.  I think that there are plenty of examples of top one sport athletes and top three sport atheletes, so I dont think you can make a conclusion one way or the other on that one.

 

You brought up Jason so I used him as an example.  If he went to Northrop and was was the 12th fastest kid in the school and did not run track and instead decided to focus on wrestling in the spring, would he have been a better wrestler. 

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Two classes in Indiana would be fine. We would still have the 7th toughest state tournament in terms of how many kids qualify for state.

 

My numbers have Indiana 3rd as to ratio of high school participants to the number of kids making the state tournament and #2 based on schools.

 

Based on 2011 participation numbers .

 

CA= 1 class  (27833 participants to 1 class)

IL= 2 class (17133 participants to 1 Class) 425 schools

IN= 1 class (7,877 participants) 313 schools

TX= 1 class (7825 particpants)  they do have a girls class

NY= 2 class (14,367 par)  (also have a private school division??

PA = 2 Class (9,900 Par)

nJ = 2 Class (9,718 par)

 

 

 

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My numbers have Indiana 3rd as to ratio of high school participants to the number of kids making the state tournament and #2 based on schools.

 

Based on 2011 participation numbers .

 

CA= 1 class  (27833 participants to 1 class)

IL= 2 class (17133 participants to 1 Class) 425 schools

IN= 1 class (7,877 participants) 313 schools

TX= 1 class (7825 particpants)  they do have a girls class

NY= 2 class (14,367 par)  (also have a private school division??

PA = 2 Class (9,900 Par)

nJ = 2 Class (9,718 par)

 

 

 

Doesn't Illinois have 3 classes?  illinoismatmen.com
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classed individual state is stupid in the state of indiana you can class it for team state go for it individual one class one champion  ;D and y2 further back post griffen and i trained ot beat the best at the weight last year and we lost if we were in a different division and won it would have been nice but not nearly as satisfying. small schools have individual success i have several friends who are from small schools who are state champions and who wrestled D1 hahah so yeah wrestling is an individual.............................. team sport out on the mat it is one on one haha not baskebtall juan on juan hahaha

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Tonte did start his coaching career at Tri-West. He had no more than 10 guys on the varsity and didn't win a lot of dual meets. He was there for 2 years and had the school's first state qualifier in year 1 and a semi-state champion in year 2--same guy. He also coached an incredibly tall, good-looking, full hair-headed individual who would go on to coach at Danville.

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classed individual state is stupid in the state of indiana you can class it for team state go for it individual one class one champion  ;D and y2 further back post griffen and i trained ot beat the best at the weight last year and we lost if we were in a different division and won it would have been nice but not nearly as satisfying. small schools have individual success i have several friends who are from small schools who are state champions and who wrestled D1 hahah so yeah wrestling is an individual.............................. team sport out on the mat it is one on one haha not baskebtall juan on juan hahaha

I didn't know you were still training for another state title. How did you get a 5th year?

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So why do 75% of the state qualifiers come from schools in the upper half of enrollment?

 

I'll answer your question with a question.  What percent of students come from schools in the upper 50% of enrollment?  I'll give you a hint.  It's way more than 50%... probably close to 75%.

 

Think of each student as a raffle ticket.  If you bought 50 tickets (number of boys at a small school), and your friend bought 2000 (number of boys at a large school), and 224 winning tickets were drawn (number of state qualifiers), you'd be crazy to expect you both to have the same number of winners.  Each individual wrestler has an equal chance of going to state, just like each individual ticket would have an equal chance of being a winning ticket, but a bigger school should statistically expect to have a larger number of qualifiers because they hold more chances.

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I'll answer your question with a question.  What percent of students come from schools in the upper 50% of enrollment?  I'll give you a hint.  It's way more than 50%... probably close to 75%.

 

Think of each student as a raffle ticket.  If you bought 50 tickets (number of boys at a small school), and your friend bought 2000 (number of boys at a large school), and 224 winning tickets were drawn (number of state qualifiers), you'd be crazy to expect you both to have the same number of winners.  Each individual wrestler has an equal chance of going to state, just like each individual ticket would have an equal chance of being a winning ticket, but a bigger school should statistically expect to have a larger number of qualifiers because they hold more chances.

But in wrestling every school can only buy 14 raffle tickets. Just because a school has 2000 students they aren't afforded more wrestlers in the state tournament.

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