maligned Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I guess that was GC's second team that wrestled the Hurrle tournament on Saturday? The Genius ratings had GC pegged as a surprise Top 20 team, but none of their returnees wrestled and they got 7th place. Please tell me this was the second team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yes, it was their second team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Freeze Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 IT was their JV team. No way even close to a varsity lineup. They sent their Varsity team to Elwood where the competition was not as strong. Bad move by GC coaches and administration. Should be some sanctions against them for a move like that. I suggest that everyone begin to look at your contracts and if you see Greenfield Central on the team list, call and check and see. Heck you might see the Varsity team at some JV events. BAD ETHICS TO SEND THE JV TO A VARSITY EVENT! I talked to the Tech AD and he said that he did not get contacted that GC would be scared and not willing to send their team to Tech so don't try to play that card either. Bad Bad Bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 IT was their JV team. No way even close to a varsity lineup. They sent their Varsity team to Elwood where the competition was not as strong. Bad move by GC coaches and administration. Should be some sanctions against them for a move like that. I suggest that everyone begin to look at your contracts and if you see Greenfield Central on the team list, call and check and see. Heck you might see the Varsity team at some JV events. BAD ETHICS TO SEND THE JV TO A VARSITY EVENT! I talked to the Tech AD and he said that he did not get contacted that GC would be scared and not willing to send their team to Tech so don't try to play that card either. Bad Bad Bad Great, so the IHSAA will discontinue JV meets after this year as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yes, it was their second team. They must have thought it was team regional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 IT was their JV team. No way even close to a varsity lineup. They sent their Varsity team to Elwood where the competition was not as strong. Bad move by GC coaches and administration. Should be some sanctions against them for a move like that. I suggest that everyone begin to look at your contracts and if you see Greenfield Central on the team list, call and check and see. Heck you might see the Varsity team at some JV events. BAD ETHICS TO SEND THE JV TO A VARSITY EVENT! I talked to the Tech AD and he said that he did not get contacted that GC would be scared and not willing to send their team to Tech so don't try to play that card either. Bad Bad Bad Many schools have a "Varsity 2" that they send to varsity events with a full or nearly full team. Why is it so horrendous that GC sent teams to two separate events? Why are they different from others that do the same? I honestly don't know the situation, but this is a normal practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Many schools have a "Varsity 2" that they send to varsity events with a full or nearly full team. Isnt Varsity 2 just another way to say JV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster77 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Give Coach Holden A Break he is doing a very good job for the Cougar's ,I would say the A.D. is the one that made the decison Greenfield has wrestled at Elwood for years so why change. Coach Holden is just trying to get All the kids some time on the Mat if it was his decison. Nobody say's NOTHING about the other schools that do the same thing, Whole I'm sorry There not PM, NP Ect. Coach KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. This is about kids improving . Suggestion Send Cougar Blue & Cougar White then there is not a Jv Team. I'm not the best at putting things into words but Please Quit Getting on a program that is bettering it self. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS KEEP IT UP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Isnt Varsity 2 just another way to say JV? Except that a few schools have a "Varsity 2" that goes to mostly varsity meets--not JV meets. My point was that if more and more teams are doing this, why should it matter if GC sends a competitive JV team to an event while its varsity goes to a meet it has attended for many seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Except that a few schools have a "Varsity 2" that goes to mostly varsity meets--not JV meets. My point was that if more and more teams are doing this, why should it matter if GC sends a competitive JV team to an event while its varsity goes to a meet it has attended for many seasons? Ask Mr. Cox since in the last year he seem to be taking issue with considering a V2 as varsity competition. (Paraphrasing) he has made comments stating teams should put there best guys forward as varsity and the others should be engaged in JV competition. Obviously he doesn't quite get the limitations (weight classes and opponets size of squad) involved in trying to find any JV guy enough mat time, but it seems he would rather all V2 matches win or losr be counted as part of a JV record. I think if schools send there V2 to the smaller Varsity events with the full disclosure of that is what is happening and the acceptance by all that it will be counted as a JV match then the IHSAA may not take issue with this continuing. Anything else that creates controversy may create a problem that the IHSAA may take issue with. Hopefully enough schools will grow there teams in size to have more true JV dual meets but as for now teams are findig competition where they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderboy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'm trying to figure out what the issue is here? Here is a team who is not a traditional super power and they are able to field two teams on the same day and some folks, alleged wrestling people, find issue with this? The more kids we have competing the better. C'mon man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Hull Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I just got wind of this and Josh Holden is one of the best coaches around! If someone wants to hate on anyone, bring this animosity and criticism my way. We were down some teams for the John Hurrle because there were a handful of schools that backed out, for a variety of reasons, and so I contacted him AT THE LAST MINUTE to see if he would be interested in getting in. He was in a current contract and so he went OUT OF HIS WAY to send his JV team at MY REQUEST, just so we could have enough quality squads there. Holden does not deserve a lick of criticism from this. I have known him for almost 20 years and I consider him a brother. He is a great guy, and a great coach, so much so that the JV team beat some quality competition and and added value to the the tournament. Again Greenfield-Centrals JV team came at MY REQUEST because there were some oher schools that backed out. Do not let this be a topic of discussion and take away from a great event honoring a great man. Josh, I am sorry for this. In hindsight I see I should have informed the other coaches, but I did not know people were going to make this big of a deal about it. I consider the storm that has been created by this is a testament to your success. If you don't have any haters, that means you're not doing something right. Thank you again, Coach, and to your staff, the wrestlers that came out and competed, Greenfield-Central, Mr. Horrigan, the Greenfield-Central fans, and everyone else for showing your support and making this event a success! We look forward to a great season this year and to an even bigger and better Hurrle tournament next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 IT was their JV team. No way even close to a varsity lineup. They sent their Varsity team to Elwood where the competition was not as strong. Bad move by GC coaches and administration. Should be some sanctions against them for a move like that. I suggest that everyone begin to look at your contracts and if you see Greenfield Central on the team list, call and check and see. Heck you might see the Varsity team at some JV events. BAD ETHICS TO SEND THE JV TO A VARSITY EVENT! I talked to the Tech AD and he said that he did not get contacted that GC would be scared and not willing to send their team to Tech so don't try to play that card either. Bad Bad Bad How does it feel to make a fool of your self so early in the morning? Sad Sad Sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Another case of "know the whole story before running your mouth" My understanding is the Elwood meet is a varsity event, an Event they already had a commitment to. The other meet had some openings so they used their JV team to fill in... what's wrong with that? You think it would be fair for them to pull their Varsity squad out of a meet that they are expected to bring their varsity to and replace with their jv? That seems wrong to me. We had a 6-way this weekend and I know I would be mad if one of the teem there suddenly sent there JV team instead of their V teem because they decided to join an other meet suddenly. GC did the right thing and I hoped the power house teams like PM EMD would have done the same in the exact same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Did they fill all the weight classes for there V2 Team? I dont think Perrys JV team goes to Varsity events and that JV team is always great, I could be wrong didnt get to attend many JV events of Perrys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feez Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I just got wind of this and Josh Holden is one of the best coaches around! If someone wants to hate on anyone, bring this animosity and criticism my way. We were down some teams for the John Hurrle because there were a handful of schools that backed out, for a variety of reasons, and so I contacted him AT THE LAST MINUTE to see if he would be interested in getting in. He was in a current contract and so he went OUT OF HIS WAY to send his JV team at MY REQUEST, just so we could have enough quality squads there. Holden does not deserve a lick of criticism from this. I have known him for almost 20 years and I consider him a brother. He is a great guy, and a great coach, so much so that the JV team beat some quality competition and and added value to the the tournament. Again Greenfield-Centrals JV team came at MY REQUEST because there were some oher schools that backed out. Do not let this be a topic of discussion and take away from a great event honoring a great man. Josh, I am sorry for this. In hindsight I see I should have informed the other coaches, but I did not know people were going to make this big of a deal about it. I consider the storm that has been created by this is a testament to your success. If you don't have any haters, that means you're not doing something right. Thank you again, Coach, and to your staff, the wrestlers that came out and competed, Greenfield-Central, Mr. Horrigan, the Greenfield-Central fans, and everyone else for showing your support and making this event a success! We look forward to a great season this year and to an even bigger and better Hurrle tournament next year! Way to set the record straight Coach. Nobody I repeat NOBODY should have a problem with whoever is wrestling. It is too bad that most school cannot fill a JV team and therefore there are not that many matches for them. Give the kids all of the mat time that they can get, it is better for the sport and better for the kids. Let us not forget it is supposed to be about the kids that do wrestle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I guess the question is do those wins count? Do the wins and losses for the others count? I believe the ihsaa has said that the team designated "jv" cannot count the w's and l's as varsity. Does that then affect the other programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster77 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Thank's Coach Hull for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yes I ahve no problem with teams sending multiple teams to different events on the same day. I sent my JV squad her at Madison down to Charlestown this weekend for there JV Invite (which Perry was in attendance) as we brought our varsity to Tech. Great tourney and compitition. Got to see some teams we don't normally see. As to the topic of counting wins and loses against a JV squad and if the JV squad can count these as varsity wins. Your guess is as good as mine. The IHSAA has never really laid out a a exact process on how to deal with this since I would imagine it is a problem unique to our sport. I too would like to see more places offer some weeknight JV tri-duals so we don't have this discussion every year. I have seen the comment MattM is refering too from Mr. Cox considering JV squads at Varsity meets though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The IHSAA by-laws allow teams to have as many teams as they want in each sport. They only allow one of those teams to enter the IHSAA tournament. If the IHSAA does not allow those teams to count that as a win even though they were at a varsity tournament then what do we do when a JV wrestler moves into the varsity lineup for a few matches. Do we tell the other coach that he can not count those wins because it was against a JV wrestler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The IHSAA by-laws allow teams to have as many teams as they want in each sport. They only allow one of those teams to enter the IHSAA tournament. If the IHSAA does not allow those teams to count that as a win even though they were at a varsity tournament then what do we do when a JV wrestler moves into the varsity lineup for a few matches. Do we tell the other coach that he can not count those wins because it was against a JV wrestler? And welcome to the world of IHSAA interpretations of there own by-laws. They haven't exactly figured out the subtle differences that make our sport setup unique (since it is true one on one with specific weight classes) compared to almost all of the other team and individual sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Did they fill all the weight classes for there V2 Team? I dont think Perrys JV team goes to Varsity events and that JV team is always great, I could be wrong didnt get to attend many JV events of Perrys. GC filled 11 weights and got 7th out of 10 teams in the meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Inserting a JV wrestler into a varsity competition is different than sending a whole JV squad to a varsity competition. And for the record I could care less either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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