jdmdjm Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The results page showed 11 fft's in the Knox-Culver match. That is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not for Culver its not. We are just coming off football and will likely fill 12 or 13 weight classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not for Culver its not. We are just coming off football and will likely fill 12 or 13 weight classes. Why have it so early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Great question....until recently, Culver advancing in the football playoffs was not a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyt Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well, I really did not want to get on here and say this but I believe I am developing a sickness that spread and came from the eastside of town, Warren(I just cant stay off the site and leave well enough alone). Sorry WC182, just kidding man!! Anyway, ffts, who cares. The dual meet system really means nothing after this year so if you only have a handful of kids it should not matter. If we are getting prepared for a scoring system to win a state title then what does it matter if we have fft's in dual meets. Why does it matter what the score was because it has nothing to do with who is better and who is going to be better at the end of the season. A team could fft 9 weight classes, maybe 10 and still win state but never win a dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Lol love ya coach see ya sat. I got that same bug when I was on the Southside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well, I really did not want to get on here and say this but I believe I am developing a sickness that spread came from the eastside of town, Warren(I just cant stay off the site and leave well enough alone). Sorry WC182, just kidding man!! Anyway, ffts, who cares. The dual meet system really means nothing after this year so if you only have a handful of kids it should not matter. If we are getting prepared for a scoring system to win a state title then what does it matter if we have fft's in dual meets. Why does it matter what the score was because it has nothing to do with who is better and who is going to be better at the end of the season. A team could fft 9 weight classes, maybe 10 and still win state but never win a dual. It's true next year all it takes are four or five quality kids and your Team State Champs Possilbly, boy what a system to look forward to, : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 wow.....only 4 out of 14 matches actually wrestled.....2 pins for knox and 2 pins for culver but knox wins because of one less forfeit......that's kinda crazy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It's true next year all it takes are four or five quality kids and your Team State Champs Possilbly, boy what a system to look forward to, : I know. 16 years ago or so it was the same system and no cared at all about wrestling back then. Then team state was institued and it was a magical time. Wrestling became the "popular" sport in h.s. Everyone clamoring to join their team. So many kids came out that most h.s.'s implemented "try outs." Then the evil Sith Lord, Bobby Cox, decided to destroy this perfect system and took team state away but a band of coaches started "The Rebellion." To be continued..............(queue the theme from Star Wars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyt Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 And even further back cavemen used to beat women with a club and drag them into the cave and nobody thought there was anything wrong with it. My wife would not appreciate that very much. However there are some people out there that still think it's ok. As we as a race get smarter we evolve and change the way we do things. If you are really so convinced that the old way is the best way then how far do you suggest we go back. Lets just say, only the winner advances. 4 to state. Why would we go any further than that. There could not have been a better way because that's the old way. And we all agree on this site that the TEAM crowned state champs could have a losing record and not win sectional, regional or semi state. I really sound like an idiot even saying that but there you have it. The best way because it's the old way. I guess Ohio is taking steps backwards next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Its adidcting huh coach, And there you go,! Much agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 And even further back cavemen used to beat women with a club and drag them into the cave and nobody thought there was anything wrong with it. My wife would not appreciate that very much. However there are some people out there that still think it's ok. As we as a race get smarter we evolve and change the way we do things. If you are really so convinced that the old way is the best way then how far do you suggest we go back. Lets just say, only the winner advances. 4 to state. Why would we go any further than that. There could not have been a better way because that's the old way. And we all agree on this site that the TEAM crowned state champs could have a losing record and not win sectional, regional or semi state. I really sound like an idiot even saying that but there you have it. The best way because it's the old way. I guess Ohio is taking steps backwards next year. Isn't one of the big reasons the IHSAA dropped the team format is that some of your coaching brethern weren't fielding full strength squads at team regionals? Doesn't this kind of support the fact that wrestling is mostly an individual sport and that the majority of the h.s. wrestling community is ambivilant towards the whole team idea? The Carmel Girls swim team argument doesn't hold water (pardon the pun) because I think that system of determining a team champion has been around a lot longer than wrestling's team dual idea. ALso, though swimming is certainly a physical sport, the chance for injury in the water is a lot less than on the mat, hence coaches not wanting to wrestle their guys in something they have no shot at winning. Look, go ahead and crank back up a team series. No one is stopping you. But quit crying about it's demise becasue to the majority of wrestling coaches jsut don't care enough to do anything about it. It's not a question of team series being something bad. It wasn't. It was fine. Just not enough support for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Isn't one of the big reasons the IHSAA dropped the team format is that some of your coaching brethern weren't fielding full strength squads at team regionals? Doesn't this kind of support the fact that wrestling is mostly an individual sport and that the majority of the h.s. wrestling community is ambivilant towards the whole team idea? The Carmel Girls swim team argument doesn't hold water (pardon the pun) because I think that system of determining a team champion has been around a lot longer than wrestling's team dual idea. ALso, though swimming is certainly a physical sport, the chance for injury in the water is a lot less than on the mat, hence coaches not wanting to wrestle their guys in something they have no shot at winning. Look, go ahead and crank back up a team series. No one is stopping you. But quit crying about it's demise becasue to the majority of wrestling coaches jsut don't care enough to do anything about it. It's not a question of team series being something bad. It wasn't. It was fine. Just not enough support for it. I dont think the coaches with strong programs agree with you, but maybe the non competitive teams or the coaches that may be going through the motions. Never met anyone who saw last years team state that didn't think it was great action and great for the sport.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I dont think the coaches with strong programs agree with you, but maybe the non competitive teams or the coaches that may be going through the motions. Never met anyone who saw last years team state that didn't think it was great action and great for the sport.... Now where near as popular as Conseco... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyt Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Exactly Jimtown. All those fans showed up all these years at Conseco and did not care about a team score. Likewise, the Team State brings in the biggest amount of dual meet fans for one day, for the year!!! Pretty good system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYSKY Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Ive went and watched state for years and years. I went and watched my 1st team state last year. I was blown away it was a 1st class deal. I said when I left that day I wont miss one for now on that was the BEST day of wrestling I have ever seen from start to finish. It was STANDING ROOM ONLY. Why mess up a great thing?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Exactly Jimtown. All those fans showed up all these years at Conseco and did not care about a team score. Likewise, the Team State brings in the biggest amount of dual meet fans for one day, for the year!!! Pretty good system. So no one ever went to Conseco and kept up with the team scores? That, I don't believe. I heard the discussions in the seats last year. The existing team state tourney was the best situation that we could of had as a fully sanctioned IHSAA event. Maybe not exactly fair in all respects, but at least you knew what you were striving for. I for one, like the regionals that Jimtown had the opportunity to compete in, in the past two years. It was a true education in humility and in pride. And anything that was perceived by me as negative in respect to the team tournament on any of these posts were my way of disputing the concept that having a team tournament was the only way to create a true team atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have not been to a sporting event that provides a atmosphere like Team State its amazing, been to close basketball and football games but I know the last 3 Team States Ive been to have been amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have not been to a sporting event that provides a atmosphere like Team State its amazing, been to close basketball and football games but I know the last 3 Team States Ive been to have been amazing. I didn't mean the atmosphere at a tournament. I should have said true team comradery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Well, I really did not want to get on here and say this but I believe I am developing a sickness that spread and came from the eastside of town, Warren(I just cant stay off the site and leave well enough alone). Sorry WC182, just kidding man!! Anyway, ffts, who cares. The dual meet system really means nothing after this year so if you only have a handful of kids it should not matter. If we are getting prepared for a scoring system to win a state title then what does it matter if we have fft's in dual meets. Why does it matter what the score was because it has nothing to do with who is better and who is going to be better at the end of the season. A team could fft 9 weight classes, maybe 10 and still win state but never win a dual. Come on coach, you know none of that is true. The top teams will not stop building teams because they are the ones who are also dominating te individual series as well. And duals are important beause teams will still want to beat each other. I remember the duals between Southside and Delta in the 80's and 90.. They were classic and the atmosphere was electric. The individual series will not kill the dual. Heck, the team series may have because we no longer have duals, but rather Super Duals and all day Saturday tournaments. Bring back the weeknight dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Take a look at the top 25 wrestling states in the country (rankings pulled from another thread). Blue represent states that currently have (or will in the near future) state duals, red represents the states that don't. 1. Pennsylvania 2. Iowa 3. Minnesota 4. Ohio (will be instituted in 2012-13) 5. Illinois 6. California 7. Oklahoma 8. New Jersey 9. Indiana (disbanded after 2011-12) 10. Michigan 11. Wisconsin 12. Nebraska 13. Oregon 14. Missouri 15. Virginia 16. Maryland 17. Florida 18. Nevada 19. Georgia 20. Washington 21. New York 22. Kansas 23. North Carolina 24. Texas 25. Tennessee Majority of these states do, in fact, support a state duals format. Furthermore, the tougher the wrestling state, the more likely they'll have a dual format, with 9 of the top 11 states supporting one. that is sad for indiana.......we had it and we dropped it.....for (in the end) no real reason.....could have kept it just like it was for the last few years (which worked out just fine).....and had not only one of the best, if not the best indidual tournament in the nation, but one of the best team tournaments in the nation.....and dropped it for.......nothing......no gain.....no pain.....yes i know thats opposite of how you say it but in this case it's right on the mark.....what was the end result?......just no true state champion.......let's be like everybody else instead like no one......we used to set the bar.....now we are just posers (from a team standpoint)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Here is the problem, most coaches, I think, like a team dual state champion. Most I believe want it classed. The IHSAA will not support a classed dual tournament, let alone a single dual tournament. The only way to have a Dual State Champion is to have all in format, not invite. The IHSWCA can't figure out how to do that single or classed to make everybody happy. The only way to do it right is for it to be an IHSAA event. Then the Principals and ADs would have to support it as a IHSAA member school. Thats what hurts us by losing the dual tournament in its current state. It took a long time to get 4 levels to the Individual tournament, then advancing more at each level, then some form of wrestlebacks. If we could have kept the Team Tournament it may have eventually evolved to a class tournament - when the IHSAA was ready. Now we will never know. Once its lost, I think its lost for ever. (I hope I'm wrong) The IHSAA will never support a classed team tournament until it is ready to class all individual sports. They told us back in 1995 that the individual tournament would stay the same - keep team score and have a champion when we started the team dual tournament. In 1996 they said only one champion and team dual is what the coaches wanted and no more scoring at individual state. We have to find a way to get the IHSAA to buy into a Individual Team Champion and Dual Team Champion and not compare us to other sports. We have to get other individual sports to propose class if we ever want to try and have a classed team tournament - if that is what our coaches want. The IHSAA will always refer to wrestling as an individual sport. So until other individual sports are classed, wrestling will remain a single class. If the majority of our coaches want class then that is what we should go after and fight for it. For me I like the Individual Tournament like it is with the only change wrestlebacks. If the majority want class in a Team Dual Tournament, I support that as a member of the IHSWCA and will help fight for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Here is the problem, most coaches, I think, like a team dual state champion. Most I believe want it classed. The IHSAA will not support a classed dual tournament, let alone a single dual tournament. The only way to have a Dual State Champion is to have all in format, not invite. The IHSWCA can't figure out how to do that single or classed to make everybody happy. The only way to do it right is for it to be an IHSAA event. Then the Principals and ADs would have to support it as a IHSAA member school. Thats what hurts us by losing the dual tournament in its current state. It took a long time to get 4 levels to the Individual tournament, then advancing more at each level, then some form of wrestlebacks. If we could have kept the Team Tournament it may have eventually evolved to a class tournament - when the IHSAA was ready. Now we will never know. Once its lost, I think its lost for ever. (I hope I'm wrong) The IHSAA will never support a classed team tournament until it is ready to class all individual sports. They told us back in 1995 that the individual tournament would stay the same - keep team score and have a champion when we started the team dual tournament. In 1996 they said only one champion and team dual is what the coaches wanted and no more scoring at individual state. We have to find a way to get the IHSAA to buy into a Individual Team Champion and Dual Team Champion and not compare us to other sports. We have to get other individual sports to propose class if we ever want to try and have a classed team tournament - if that is what our coaches want. The IHSAA will always refer to wrestling as an individual sport. So until other individual sports are classed, wrestling will remain a single class. If the majority of our coaches want class then that is what we should go after and fight for it. For me I like the Individual Tournament like it is with the only change wrestlebacks. If the majority want class in a Team Dual Tournament, I support that as a member of the IHSWCA and will help fight for it. that i feel is true, yes, the majority want a "classed duals state tournament".....not a "classed individual state tournament"....what we do now is awesome.....one state champion "individually"......the only way to go......school size has nothing to do with an individual state title.....but from a team standpoint, i think there is an argument.... and in the end, i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Isn't one of the big reasons the IHSAA dropped the team format is that some of your coaching brethern weren't fielding full strength squads at team regionals? Doesn't this kind of support the fact that wrestling is mostly an individual sport and that the majority of the h.s. wrestling community is ambivilant towards the whole team idea? The Carmel Girls swim team argument doesn't hold water (pardon the pun) because I think that system of determining a team champion has been around a lot longer than wrestling's team dual idea. ALso, though swimming is certainly a physical sport, the chance for injury in the water is a lot less than on the mat, hence coaches not wanting to wrestle their guys in something they have no shot at winning. Look, go ahead and crank back up a team series. No one is stopping you. But quit crying about it's demise becasue to the majority of wrestling coaches jsut don't care enough to do anything about it. It's not a question of team series being something bad. It wasn't. It was fine. Just not enough support for it. Tell that to Coach's like Danville, Avon, Brownsburg, Mooresville just to name a few...and I'm sure very many more from around the state......I know that they are constantly trying to build a program and doing quite well.... Are you kidding?????? Coach's don't care about this?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I missed it, which schools didnt give there all or any, at Team Regionals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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