bigworm285 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 http://southbendtribune.com/article/20110301/SPORTS11/103010315/1001/Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I love this comment "We're going to survey the principals and athletic directors to see how they feel about it," said Faulkens. Now I know this should be the logical thing to do since they run the schools. But in reality does it make much sense to have these people be the main decision makers for wrestling. Principals run the schools they don't study the details of how all the sports work let along the details of a state tournaments series for the smaller sports. While much more involved than the principals the AD are not going to put in a huge amount study into the subject either. Other than what the wrestling coach or the IHSAA suggests to them most wont be informed enough to make the best decision for their schools team. Heck if the IHSAA is presenting the information and posing the questions they easily can present things in a way that only leads to the decision they want to hear anyways. If this is really the case I hope the wrestling coaches out there have the tact needed to make a decent case for what their team needs to both the principal and AD. If not the decision will be made by a bunch of people who do not understand enough to make a proper decision one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I love this comment "We're going to survey the principals and athletic directors to see how they feel about it," said Faulkens. Now I know this should be the logical thing to do since they run the schools. But in reality does it make much sense to have these people be the main decision makers for wrestling. Principals run the schools they don't study the details of how all the sports work let along the details of a state tournaments series for the smaller sports. While much more involved than the principals the AD are not going to put in a huge amount study into the subject either. Other than what the wrestling coach or the IHSAA suggests to them most wont be informed enough to make the best decision for their schools team. Heck if the IHSAA is presenting the information and posing the questions they easily can present things in a way that only leads to the decision they want to hear anyways. If this is really the case I hope the wrestling coaches out there have the tact to make a decent case for what their team needs. If not the decision will be made by a bunch of people who do not understand enough to make a proper decision one way or the other. This is where the wrestling coaches should be talking to their principals and ADs so there can be a united front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 This is where the wrestling coaches should be talking to their principals and ADs so there can be a united front. Couldn't agree with you more Karl. It seems to me that a classed team state is a plausible thing. We need to work together on this, it is something that a vast majority of the coaches that I have talked to agree with. I know at smaller schools, and I would imagine bigger schools, the parents and fans talk to the ad's and principals quite often as well, this is something that the whole wrestling community needs to come together on and I think we could achieve it Karl. I dont get to say this often enough on here but great point and wahoo to you Karl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The big schools do not want a classed system at nearly the same rate that small schools do. Only around 65% of 3A coaches want a classed dual meet while almost 90% of 1A coaches want a classed dual meet system. Plain and simple, the big schools like beating up on the little guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The big schools do not want a classed system at nearly the same rate that small schools do. Only around 65% of 3A coaches want a classed dual meet while almost 90% of 1A coaches want a classed dual meet system. Plain and simple, the big schools like beating up on the little guys. Where did you get that info at? Also why should we care it is still a large majority who wants to see it changed, their attitudes may be able to be changed if those who are for a classed team state stay focused and work together to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 All I'm concerned about is seeing the decision made with wrestling coaches input in mind. Regardless, of the outcome this seems like a much better idea than having most principals who have virtually no clue on how the state tournament runs and most ADs who just have a small bit of insight into the tournament be a major voice without know what the coaches think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearfall_3 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I sincerely hope they keep the same team state format likes its been over the last 14 plus years. Keep the same date and location at Center Grove. The article has some very good points about this issue and some good arguments have been raised. I believe keeping the team state right after the Indiv state tournament is huge. Like the coach said, the sesaon extends another week and wrestlers can compete again at team state. Im not sure if the class format will work at all? I hate throw basketball into this but look what making the state basketball Indiana tournament, its lost a lot of prestige...instead of the old format... Moving it to Dec/Jan you still fighting football and basetball for good media coverage and attention and the Christmas holiday... Just keep the same team state format ISHAA@@@@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I sincerely hope they keep the same team state format likes its been over the last 14 plus years. Keep the same date and location at Center Grove. The article has some very good points about this issue and some good arguments have been raised. I believe keeping the team state right after the Indiv state tournament is huge. Like the coach said, the sesaon extends another week and wrestlers can compete again at team state. Im not sure if the class format will work at all? I hate throw basketball into this but look what making the state basketball Indiana tournament, its lost a lot of prestige...instead of the old format... Moving it to Dec/Jan you still fighting football and basetball for good media coverage and attention and the Christmas holiday... Just keep the same team state format ISHAA@@@@ If the basketball move was so bad, why haven't they switched back to the old system? Anyone that saying class basketball hurt the sport is naive and most likely is from a big school that won 25 sectionals in a row beating up on weak sisters of the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgamehoss Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Classing the team title would undoubtedly be a good thing for wrestling. I have witnessed, firsthand, a community rally around a softball team on their road to a 2A state title. That team probably wouldn't have been able to compete for an unclassed title. The town citzenry got excited when word got out that the local team could win a state championship. I'd bet there are alot of little girls in our area that got introduced to and developed a desire to excel in softball, that otherwise would not have. The same thing could happen with wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Turning the team state into a classed system looks to make it easier for the small and largest schools. If you're in the 2A class, there's still Bellmont, Evansville Mater Dei, and Yorktown to deal with... So big deal. We need to get some recruiting going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Turning the team state into a classed system looks to make it easier for the small and largest schools. If you're in the 2A class, there's still Bellmont, Evansville Mater Dei, and Yorktown to deal with... So big deal. We need to get some recruiting going on! The top 2 or 3 teams per class may not have a lot of vary much, but the next 5 or 6 could change a lot from year to year. Just making it to the team state finals would be big for a lot of schools. In my area, it wouldn't help Mt. Vernon (Posey) much at all because they would likely be stuck with Mater Dei, but I can see where other schools would be helped by it. It would also help bigger schools like Ev. Reitz that have been dominated by EMD over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgamehoss Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The top 2 or 3 teams per class may not have a lot of vary much, but the next 5 or 6 could change a lot from year to year. Just making it to the team state finals would be big for a lot of schools. In my area, it wouldn't help Mt. Vernon (Posey) much at all because they would likely be stuck with Mater Dei, but I can see where other schools would be helped by it. exactly right, mtv. The first couple of years the top 2-3 teams at each level probably would not change. Those next 5-6 is where the real advances are made. When those teams make the state quarterfinals in their class, it creates excitement in the towns and school districts, which drive the participants to improve and strive toward a title. Eventually, the traditional power teams are really challenged to stay at the top. By-products of this process are more interest in, and better quality of wrestling overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The big schools do not want a classed system at nearly the same rate that small schools do. Only around 65% of 3A coaches want a classed dual meet while almost 90% of 1A coaches want a classed dual meet system. Plain and simple, the big schools like beating up on the little guys. Outstanding, just throw out some undocumented statistics as if they are true and then follow it up with an inflammatory statement. I like the way you work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 That is data directly from the surveys that the coaches took this year. That was after 170 respondents had partipated in the survey. I did not get the final tally, but I do not think it varied too much with the additional survey results. Here are the numbers feel free to throw out more accusations as you feel the need. Respondants Yes to Dual Yes to Indiv Dual % Indiv % 1A 47 41 16 87.23% 34.04% 2A 56 47 18 83.93% 32.14% 3A 67 44 19 65.67% 28.36% Total 170 132 53 77.6% 31.1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 That is data directly from the surveys that the coaches took this year. That was after 170 respondents had partipated in the survey. I did not get the final tally, but I do not think it varied too much with the additional survey results. Here are the numbers feel free to throw out more accusations as you feel the need. Respondants Yes to Dual Yes to Indiv Dual % Indiv % 1A 47 41 16 87.23% 34.04% 2A 56 47 18 83.93% 32.14% 3A 67 44 19 65.67% 28.36% Total 170 132 53 77.6% 31.1% I have no idea where this survey came from so it really doesn't help much. I do like the way 87% became nearly 90, that's nice work to get that 9 in there. I dont really doubt those numbers, but I'd love for you to point out which big schools like beating up on little schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have no idea where this survey came from so it really doesn't help much. It is a survey that the IHSWCA sent out to coaches. I do like the way 87% became nearly 90, that's nice work to get that 9 in there. Notice in my originl quote it states almost, it did not say it was exactly. I dont really doubt those numbers, but I'd love for you to point out which big schools like beating up on little schools. I really don't feel that I should be posting each school's response to the survey as this was done at least fairly privately so schools and coaches would not get called out for what they are voting for. When there is a 20% drop in how the top 1/3 votes it tells me quite a few big schools like to be the big dawg and do not want changes to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am a major supporter of class wrestling. However, it is probably slightly inaccurate to say the big programs like beating up on the little programs. I think a more accurate assessment is that big programs do not see the problems that smaller programs face. Because the big program has lots of kids and plenty of jv guys, they do not have the field of vision smaller programs possess regarding a class system solution. Let's not forget that some of the most significant big program coaches (Tonte, Snyder and others) have publicly voiced support on this board for a classed team state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnhs Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have never heard big schools promote classing the team state untill they thought it was on its death bed and needed support to try and save it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 It felt like that article was just written up from all the threads on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have never heard big schools promote classing the team state untill they thought it was on its death bed and needed support to try and save it. Agreed. And if we have an eye for an eye attitude, then we can say "Let's punish the big programs; get even with them by getting rid of team state. Let's make them suffer for awhile like we have." I am pissed at alot of these big programs too for their poor attitude about a class system over the years. I would suggest however, we get passed such immature logic and move on. The fact is, all programs big and small, would benefit from getting team and individual state into a classed system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have no idea where this survey came from so it really doesn't help much. I do like the way 87% became nearly 90, that's nice work to get that 9 in there. I dont really doubt those numbers, but I'd love for you to point out which big schools like beating up on little schools. Most likely those big school that are currently in sectionals with predominantly small schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The big schools do not want a classed system at nearly the same rate that small schools do. Only around 65% of 3A coaches want a classed dual meet while almost 90% of 1A coaches want a classed dual meet system. Plain and simple, the big schools like beating up on the little guys. I dont think its that plain and simple. Once again, its not like all big schools dominate. There seems to be this thought process that all the big schools are just great and just whip up on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 22% of 3A schools won sectional this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnhs Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 What is the % of 1 and 2 A schools winning sectionals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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