pin2win1 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 1997, last year of classless basketball, 55,000 1998, first year of classed basketball, 29,000 1999-present 0 years of 35,000 in attendance Also that Damon Bailey year was an abnormality, look at how much it spiked from the year before. Might have had something to do with the fact that Damon Bailey was going up against Shawn Kemp.... I'm just saying. My bad. But why the drop of 20,000 fans in some years from the peak? I am curious why the fans just died out. 20,000 fans is a lot of MONEY! 4 words in 2 names... DAMON BAILEY AND SHAWN KEMP..... possibly at that time the 2 best basketball players ever in Indiana playing eachother. Shawn Kemp had an amazing pro career ahead of him, Bailey was going on to IU and at that time believed to have a great pro career afterwards.... The HYPE for that one year was HUGE!!!!!!!!! I was only 9 at the time and remember how huge of a game that was.... that is why that peak year could easily be seen as a statistical abnormality. The drop had less to do with the popularity of basketball in Indiana, but more to do with the fact that the spike had almost everything to do with 2 of indiana's greatest high school basketball players of all time playing eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 the diference between manchester and Iowa is that manchester puts self imposed limits on themselves and remains in a lower divison.... Iowa does not. This allows for them to recruit. Both schools recruit athletes Iowa can recruit from the same pool that Manchester can recruit from and steal potential Manchester wrestlers. They are both swimming in the same pool, they both have access to the same athletes yet they are very, very different. Why? Shouldn't they be equal if they have the same pool of athletes? Which gives them access to RECRUIT more and better athletes. Completely different from a High School. You stated that they are both in the same pool, both have access to the same athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm out for awhile.... see ya all later... feel free to take my words out of context while I am gone y2..... taking things out of context and not looking into the context of the data its what you do best. (note the sarcasm here) BTW, invitation is still open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I said it works. Didn't say it works the best. Your question was why don't they change back. They find it workable. Ours is best. Do you base this judgement on experience with a multi-class tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I said it works. Didn't say it works the best. Your question was why don't they change back. They find it workable. Ours is best. Why is ours best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I am pretty passionately against class and I want to share a story as to why. In 2008 I was at the AAU Nationals, Disney Duals Tourney in FL. Ohio had two teams. Both were made up of State Champions and runners up from two of the Ohio Divisions. My son wrestled 171 lbs for Hoosier Elite and we were in the All-star division. During the week my son made friends with an alternate from the Larger school division that he had wrestled the year before in Iowa (folk style Nationals). Turns out he was an alternate to the State Champion. Here is the punch-line. The varsity 171lb wrestler for the tier two team had lost to this wrestler more than 10 times in the past 6-7 years. Yet due to class-wrestling he got the first spot, and probably the majority of the recruiting looks. The best wrestler should be the best wrestler....not sort of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 anyone want to take bets on the over/under on how many pages this topic ends up? im saying around 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm pretty sure that when football, a classed sport, makes a change they usually deal with a proposal that comes from a principal or other administrator and then it is put to a vote. Without getting into a poor me IHSAA doesn't care about us debate (god knows we need something else to argue about here), why don't you put together a proposal with actual substance? Instead of clubbing people over the head with statistics (remember the three kinds of lies!) why don't you sit down and draft an actual plan outlining the sectional assignments all the way up? I remember our school submitting a plan for football and this was a part of the plan. Now schools and teams have something to look at instead of just some free form idea that the imagination can distort. And Y2, before you pull the "if you think it's such a good idea, why don't you do it?" card, I am not a current supporter of the class wrestling movement. But I am going to play devil's advocate and set something up like this to see what it would look like. If you have already done this, I apologize because I have not seen an actual plan yet. Then you can send it to the actual coaches and not try to convince every Tom (heckman), Duck (n run), and Harry on this post board that you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 anyone want to take bets on the over/under on how many pages this topic ends up? im saying around 64 Think young one had any idea this would happen when he started the thread..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm pretty sure that when football, a classed sport, makes a change they usually deal with a proposal that comes from a principal or other administrator and then it is put to a vote. Without getting into a poor me IHSAA doesn't care about us debate (god knows we need something else to argue about here), why don't you put together a proposal with actual substance? Instead of clubbing people over the head with statistics (remember the three kinds of lies!) why don't you sit down and draft an actual plan outlining the sectional assignments all the way up? I remember our school submitting a plan for football and this was a part of the plan. Now schools and teams have something to look at instead of just some free form idea that the imagination can distort. And Y2, before you pull the "if you think it's such a good idea, why don't you do it?" card, I am not a current supporter of the class wrestling movement. But I am going to play devil's advocate and set something up like this to see what it would look like. If you have already done this, I apologize because I have not seen an actual plan yet. Then you can send it to the actual coaches and not try to convince every Tom (heckman), Duck (n run), and Harry on this post board that you are right. Tom, Duck, and Harry......I don't care who you are, now THAT'S funny...... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Think young one had any idea this would happen when he started the thread..... Based on the title and this board's history.....yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I am pretty passionately against class and I want to share a story as to why. In 2008 I was at the AAU Nationals, Disney Duals Tourney in FL. Ohio had two teams. Both were made up of State Champions and runners up from two of the Ohio Divisions. My son wrestled 171 lbs for Hoosier Elite and we were in the All-star division. During the week my son made friends with an alternate from the Larger school division that he had wrestled the year before in Iowa (folk style Nationals). Turns out he was an alternate to the State Champion. Here is the punch-line. The varsity 171lb wrestler for the tier two team had lost to this wrestler more than 10 times in the past 6-7 years. Yet due to class-wrestling he got the first spot, and probably the majority of the recruiting looks. The best wrestler should be the best wrestler....not sort of! If he beat the other kid 6 or 7 times I doubt seriously the smaller division state champ was getting more recruiting looks. Thinking some one "probably" is getting more recruiting looks. seems like fairly flimsy evidence to be passionately against class wrestling. But too each his own. Just wondering if we have figured out whether tennis is classed in indiana or not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm pretty sure that when football, a classed sport, makes a change they usually deal with a proposal that comes from a principal or other administrator and then it is put to a vote. Without getting into a poor me IHSAA doesn't care about us debate (god knows we need something else to argue about here), why don't you put together a proposal with actual substance? I am fairly certain if asked by the coaches association or his principal, y2 would have no problem putting a proposal together. I just hope he doesn't use whining or crying in the proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 If he beat the other kid 6 or 7 times I doubt seriously the smaller division state champ was getting more recruiting looks. Thinking some one "probably" is getting more recruiting looks. seems like fairly flimsy evidence to be passionately against class wrestling. But too each his own. Just wondering if we have figured out whether tennis is classed in indiana or not?? Lets see, AAU Nationals, college recruiters everywhere, One guy wrestles the other is an alternate....who the hell do you think gets the looks? By the way the looks are second to me. He deserved the right to represent his state and class wrestling took that away! Don't know on Tennis, have to talk to my daughter tonight. Said I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 So is sarcasm..... ;D WOO HOO!!!!! My post was no. 600 on this thread. Do I win a prize? (Yes, I know I've left myself open with that line) Whining is NOT a debate tool...It is just the way it all comes across. Poor Pity Me...I only have this much to work with...Here's an idea... How about being THANKFUL YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO WORK WITH AT ALL????? Garrett could easily come down and say Wrestling is cut - So Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Lets see, AAU Nationals, college recruiters everywhere, One guy wrestles the other is an alternate....who the hell do you think gets the looks? By the way the looks are second to me. He deserved the right to represent his state and class wrestling took that away! Don't know on Tennis, have to talk to my daughter tonight. Said I might be wrong. Probably should have gone to a tournament where he could have wrestled, like Fargo or Fila Cadets, rather than being an alternate. If a college recruits and gives money to a kid when another kid is available who has beaten him 6-7 times, than shame on the college for not doing homework. Why would anyone be an alternate behind someone they can beat. Doesn't make any sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Whining is NOT a debate tool...It is just the way it all comes across. Poor Pity Me...I only have this much to work with...Here's an idea... How about being THANKFUL YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO WORK WITH AT ALL????? Garrett could easily come down and say Wrestling is cut - So Sorry... Welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Whining is NOT a debate tool...It is just the way it all comes across. Poor Pity Me...I only have this much to work with...Here's an idea... How about being THANKFUL YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO WORK WITH AT ALL????? Garrett could easily come down and say Wrestling is cut - So Sorry... Whoa.....you took my post, not Karl's. HE'S the one who sarcastically said whining was a debate tool, not me. My post was to him.....and it was as sarcastic as I think his was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I am fairly certain if asked by the coaches association or his principal, y2 would have no problem putting a proposal together. I just hope he doesn't use whining or crying in the proposal. And I'm fairly certain that we didn't wait for our principal or coaches association to come find us and ask for change. We took it upon ourselves to create a plan and take it to them. Please save the whining and crying comments for someone trying to be petty. I'm trying to add some class to the "class debate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Welcome. Huh... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Why would anyone be an alternate behind someone they can beat. Doesn't make any sense to me. Why-Class Wrestling, my whole point! Class wrestling made the better wrestler sit the bench. Can't happen in Indiana! Well it can but much less likely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Whoa.....you took my post, not Karl's. HE'S the one who sarcastically said whining was a debate tool, not me. My post was to him.....and it was as sarcastic as I think his was. Not meant towards you theckman... I just have to wonder what these people are teaching their kids in the rooms if this is how they present their arguments for or against something here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 We already went over this Mishawaka has the same number of athletes as Garrett. They are just better than us. really..once again the sarcasm comes through.... I never said Mishawaka has the same number of athletes as Garrett. That is assanine. Why is it always Mishawaka and Garrett. I have never mentioned Mishawaka and I have never compared the two. Funny thing about your sarcastic response is that you defeated 6 schools, I believe that is what was stated earlier by you, that have a population over 900. So where is the cutoff to when your athletes arent better than the other schools? 1,200 students? 1,500 students? What does it say about those larger schools when they cant compete against the small schools like Garrett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 really..once again the sarcasm comes through.... I never said Mishawaka has the same number of athletes as Garrett. That is assanine. Why is it always Mishawaka and Garrett. I have never mentioned Mishawaka and I have never compared the two. Funny thing about your sarcastic response is that you defeated 6 schools, I believe that is what was stated earlier by you, that have a population over 900. So where is the cutoff to when your athletes arent better than the other schools? 1,200 students? 1,500 students? What does it say about those larger schools when they cant compete against the small schools like Garrett? We are going to have to ask you to stop making logical arguments in this thread. It just confuses those who want to wimper in the corner about how they don't have this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Not meant towards you theckman... I just have to wonder what these people are teaching their kids in the rooms if this is how they present their arguments for or against something here... Whoops......once again, my bad. It's Friday, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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